2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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I don't think the final car will be like that. If I were a betting man, and I ain't, I'd push the mirrors as far back as possible, because those horizontal strakes will help clean up the rear tire wake.
Saishū kōnā

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:00 am
I don't think the final car will be like that. If I were a betting man, and I ain't, I'd push the mirrors as far back as possible, because those horizontal strakes will help clean up the rear tire wake.
I had to double check but I think the Haas mirrors are pretty close to that. There's a question of if far back or as far from the centreline is more beneficial - if I had to chose I think wider it better because it's a longer mount to turn the air down.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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djos
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Interesting discussion on the new cars from Driver61 and Scarbs.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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MIKEY_!
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That was me (and k.ko100v). This is what I sketched out (very rough, sorry) using your regulation boxes (thanks, by the way). By making the nose as short as possible, it looks like nose tip can sit quite high in its regulation box. Unless I'm missing something?

Image

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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MIKEY_! wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:10 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That was me (and k.ko100v). This is what I sketched out (very rough, sorry) using your regulation boxes (thanks, by the way). By making the nose as short as possible, it looks like nose tip can sit quite high in its regulation box. Unless I'm missing something?

https://imgbb.com/
Like so. I'm not sure it'll be the dominant concept. The Haas seems to be somewhere in-between max and min height.
Image
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:17 pm
MIKEY_! wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:10 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That was me (and k.ko100v). This is what I sketched out (very rough, sorry) using your regulation boxes (thanks, by the way). By making the nose as short as possible, it looks like nose tip can sit quite high in its regulation box. Unless I'm missing something?

https://imgbb.com/
Like so. I'm not sure it'll be the dominant concept. The Haas seems to be somewhere in-between max and min height.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
One benefit is that it forces more twist to the wing, span wise. Birdies twist their wings and it adds more directional stability, especially under yaw. Like the mighty albatross.

Image

Imagine our buddy there flying backwards, pretty good wing if you cut out all the animal bits and only focus on the aero.
Saishū kōnā

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djos
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Kyle (former Mercedes aero engineer) has his analysis of the VF22 up.

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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I'm wondering about the rear wing, it seems like it's a diverging duct. Since the airflow seen by the rear wing is subsonic at the leading edge, a diverging duct would only serve to slow down the airflow under the wing, making it more prone to detach. Where the endplate and rear wing meet, it is a diverging duct, thus the wing is diffusing subsonic air and slowing it down, encouraging it to detach. It has to reach a critical velocity before the flow can attach itself. Not only does this make the wing behave like an on/off switch, it also lowers its efficiency at lower speeds.

A converging duct would accelerate air under the rear wing, up to a point, I wouldn't be surprised if we see teams making the endplates cross sections of trumpets. Converging at the leading 10mm edge then flaring out in the final 3mm the regulations allow. Bonus points if the rear wing ends up making a badly played flute sound. :mrgreen:
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theVortexCreatorY250
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:52 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:17 pm
MIKEY_! wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:10 am


That was me (and k.ko100v). This is what I sketched out (very rough, sorry) using your regulation boxes (thanks, by the way). By making the nose as short as possible, it looks like nose tip can sit quite high in its regulation box. Unless I'm missing something?

https://imgbb.com/
Like so. I'm not sure it'll be the dominant concept. The Haas seems to be somewhere in-between max and min height.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
One benefit is that it forces more twist to the wing, span wise. Birdies twist their wings and it adds more directional stability, especially under yaw. Like the mighty albatross.

https://www.americanoceans.org/wp-conte ... atross.jpg

Imagine our buddy there flying backwards, pretty good wing if you cut out all the animal bits and only focus on the aero.
Don't forget that birds use this as the anhedral --> dihedral packages nicely and the yaw stability is becuase the side force centre of pressure is rearwards of the COG. In these new cars any forwards vertical surfacing would decrease stability.
I create vortices

mzso
mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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djos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:06 pm
Kyle (former Mercedes aero engineer) has his analysis of the VF22 up.

I might upvote the post, but it seems like the rating system is broken.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:36 pm
djos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:06 pm
Kyle (former Mercedes aero engineer) has his analysis of the VF22 up.

I might upvote the post, but it seems like the rating system is broken.
Steven knows - it's being worked on.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:36 pm
djos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:06 pm
Kyle (former Mercedes aero engineer) has his analysis of the VF22 up.

I might upvote the post, but it seems like the rating system is broken.
Cheers, I appreciate the thought. 👍

EDIT: apparently it's been fixed.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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djos wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:06 pm
Kyle (former Mercedes aero engineer) has his analysis of the VF22 up.

So he thinks Haas are trying to use the front of the sidepod to control tyre wake to some degree - as discussed in the Haas thread. Also getting downwash in to the floor too.

Some interesting points raised in that video.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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west52keep64
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:17 pm
Like so. I'm not sure it'll be the dominant concept. The Haas seems to be somewhere in-between max and min height.
Image
This looks familiar:

Image

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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west52keep64 wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:37 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:17 pm
Like so. I'm not sure it'll be the dominant concept. The Haas seems to be somewhere in-between max and min height.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
This looks familiar:

https://assets.astonmartinf1.com/public ... F_sRGB.jpg
Indeed so. Somewhere in-between that and lower i'd say but yeah!
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica