Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The craftsmanship and precision of everything is incredible. These engines don't get they credit they deserve, they are masterpieces of human engineering. Even more incredible that the new one is even more compact, and more powerful, to the point they're willing to show the outgoing engine in such detail.
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Hoffman900
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:20 pm
The craftsmanship and precision of everything is incredible. These engines don't get they credit they deserve, they are masterpieces of human engineering. Even more incredible that the new one is even more compact, and more powerful, to the point they're willing to show the outgoing engine in such detail.
I think those engines get plenty of credit. What is really a shame is how neutered they are.

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godlameroso
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Hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:22 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:20 pm
The craftsmanship and precision of everything is incredible. These engines don't get they credit they deserve, they are masterpieces of human engineering. Even more incredible that the new one is even more compact, and more powerful, to the point they're willing to show the outgoing engine in such detail.
I think those engines get plenty of credit. What is really a shame is how neutered they are.
As in total output? If they could shove as much fuel as they please, I'd imagine ~2,200hp before material limitations became an issue. If they go bonkers on the electric power, 3,100hp maybe, in small bursts? Imagine these cars with twice the power, top kek.
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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:33 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:22 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:20 pm
The craftsmanship and precision of everything is incredible. These engines don't get they credit they deserve, they are masterpieces of human engineering. Even more incredible that the new one is even more compact, and more powerful, to the point they're willing to show the outgoing engine in such detail.
I think those engines get plenty of credit. What is really a shame is how neutered they are.
As in total output? If they could shove as much fuel as they please, I'd imagine ~2,200hp before material limitations became an issue. If they go bonkers on the electric power, 3,100hp maybe, in small bursts? Imagine these cars with twice the power, top kek.
If they could use as much fuel flow as needed, peak power would be at the RPM limit (15000rpm). They'd still have boost limits and fuel composition limits. I think they'd be more like something around 1200hp from the ICE alone.

If there weren't RPM or fuel composition limits, I have no idea how far they could go, but they'd not be running on anything like regular gasoline - they'd possibly probably be back on mostly-toluene again.

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godlameroso
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Craigy wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:22 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:33 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:22 pm


I think those engines get plenty of credit. What is really a shame is how neutered they are.
As in total output? If they could shove as much fuel as they please, I'd imagine ~2,200hp before material limitations became an issue. If they go bonkers on the electric power, 3,100hp maybe, in small bursts? Imagine these cars with twice the power, top kek.
If they could use as much fuel flow as needed, peak power would be at the RPM limit (15000rpm). They'd still have boost limits and fuel composition limits. I think they'd be more like something around 1200hp from the ICE alone.

If there weren't RPM or fuel composition limits, I have no idea how far they could go, but they'd not be running on anything like regular gasoline - they'd possibly probably be back on mostly-toluene again.
The B18c has done over 1,000hp at 10k rpm, I think the engineering might of Honda can do a little better :)

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PlatinumZealot
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That's methanol fuel though.
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:49 pm
That's methanol fuel though.
methanol will in this (fuel unlimited) case give more power than eg toluene
because its stoichiometric heat (heat per cylinder-full of air) is several percent greater

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Wouter
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I saw some interesting information on another forum why now the logo of HRC is on the RB18 and not Honda.
RB will announce the new name of the Honda PU, it will be their decission.

"January 14, 2022,
Starting this season, Honda will further strengthen its motorsports operation and capability
BY ADDING AUTOMOBILE RACING ACTIVITIES to Honda Racing Corporation (HRC), which has been operating Honda’s MOTORCYCLE racing activities."

"In the 2022 season, based on a request from the Red Bull Group, HRC will support Red Bull Powertrains which will supply the PU that employs Honda’s PU technologies to Scuderia AlphaTauri and Red Bull Racing."
Great article about HRC. https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2022/c220114eng.html

New logo: Image
The Power of Honda!

kevpasca
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"Honda: Competitors 'downplay' impact of new Formula 1 fuel"
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/103711/h ... -fuel.html,
.
I wonder how Honda is skeptical about power gain and none of the teams have been able to do it. Imagine if the power gain is true and Honda is the only manufacturer who didn't gain back the lost hp. Not to forget that the Honda engine was badly beaten by Mercedes in the last four races, they still have so much work to do. Deciding to stay back in 2022 after their 2021 success and go back to 2016-17 levels, would be truly Honda.

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etusch
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kevpasca wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:21 am
"Honda: Competitors 'downplay' impact of new Formula 1 fuel"
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/103711/h ... -fuel.html,
.
I wonder how Honda is skeptical about power gain and none of the teams have been able to do it. Imagine if the power gain is true and Honda is the only manufacturer who didn't gain back the lost hp. Not to forget that the Honda engine was badly beaten by Mercedes in the last four races, they still have so much work to do. Deciding to stay back in 2022 after their 2021 success and go back to 2016-17 levels, would be truly Honda.
Engine manufacturers were bringing lesser power gains than 20 hp to new seasons. So if new fuel's nature brings 20 hp loss and different combustion characteristic then it is of course harder thing compared to trying to get more power from same fuel.
But it is obvious that you have a beaten man sore. So it is ok for me.

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Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:26 am
kevpasca wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:21 am
"Honda: Competitors 'downplay' impact of new Formula 1 fuel"
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/103711/h ... -fuel.html,
.
I wonder how Honda is skeptical about power gain and none of the teams have been able to do it. Imagine if the power gain is true and Honda is the only manufacturer who didn't gain back the lost hp. Not to forget that the Honda engine was badly beaten by Mercedes in the last four races, they still have so much work to do. Deciding to stay back in 2022 after their 2021 success and go back to 2016-17 levels, would be truly Honda.
Engine manufacturers were bringing lesser power gains than 20 hp to new seasons. So if new fuel's nature brings 20 hp loss and different combustion characteristic then it is of course harder thing compared to trying to get more power from same fuel.
But it is obvious that you have a beaten man sore. So it is ok for me.
.
I don't know what that means, but you know @ kevpasca is a huge Honda fan?
The Power of Honda!

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PlatinumZealot
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F1 engines were detonation limited, and probably still are. However, the cooling effect of the additional ethanol should lower that. It could be mean more aggressive timings are now possible, and it also could mean that some frictional effects could be reduced near TDC. So who knows, it might balance back out.
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:06 pm
F1 engines were detonation limited, and probably still are. However, the cooling effect of the additional ethanol should lower that. It could be mean more aggressive timings are now possible, and it also could mean that some frictional effects could be reduced near TDC. So who knows, it might balance back out.
I think that in these condition they can get better torq and benefits of it. It is not bad. If new aero rules bring lesser drag, higher max speed, it is hard to compare engine powers.

Marty_Y
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:06 pm
F1 engines were detonation limited, and probably still are. However, the cooling effect of the additional ethanol should lower that. It could be mean more aggressive timings are now possible, and it also could mean that some frictional effects could be reduced near TDC. So who knows, it might balance back out.
In this video it's mentioned that the new fuel has more Knock resistance, so they theoretically could run the engine harder to compensate the reduction of energy in the fuel.



Apologies for sharing a Mercedes video in the Honda thread.