Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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DRCorsa
DRCorsa
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:32 am

Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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It's quite some time that i have come up with this design in mind.
I tried to make a hand sketch. I am sorry for the bad quality of the sketch.
The idea is to design a car with no side pods at all, use the side crash structures as a wing to direct airflow to the rear and use a large radiator on the rear of the car incorporating all the other ancillary radiators.
Radiator inlets will be above the driver's head, left and right, receiving plenty of clean airflow.
I know that this will raise the CoG quite much but just think what the benefits will be to the flow to the rear of the car.
What do you think?

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bucker
bucker
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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I think that from 2021 shape of the car will be much more restricted, and there will be only few aero things on the car to change. I do not think that such a radical sidepod will be legal from 2021.
Ferrari F92A long time ago had raised sidepods, so there was free space under them and nice airflow to the diffusor. If i remember correctly, extra weight for that design was to much compared to the better airflow flow from new design.

Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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Well, one issue i see is the weight distribution. The weight distribution is stated in the rules with only a few kg to play with without going over the minimum weight. Radiatiors are generally on the heavy side. So if you put them further to the back where already the PU und gearbox is located, the other heavy staff, it will be a real challenge to balance that out without going purposely overweight.

Another problem i would think is the radiator outlet air, which is turbulent. It will hit the rear Wing and makes it significantly less effective.

Also for some components the radiator would be really inconveniently placed. For instance the ES would need way longer coolant hoses than with the tradional setup.

Just my two cents.

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Big Tea
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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Would that affect the side impact regs?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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Im more interested in the engine CoG and minimum weight rules...

If you did something like moving to a heatpipe->fin type valve cover, and ducted air through that, could you effectively remove the liquid loop? In a super-technical description, it would still be "liquid cooled", and be part of the engine, so could be counted towards the minimum engine weight, and would allow lowering the current CoG additive components as you would be adding a kilo or 2 up top.

Might be the play with the 2 strokes that are coming instead tho...

Rodak
Rodak
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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So why not just scale up a Swift FF2000 a bit? A joke, a joke!

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jjn9128
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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DRCorsa wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:46 pm
Realistically the rules make it difficult - two rules in particular being the R75 volume, which means the engine air intake can only be up to 250mm wide, and where openings are permitted in the bodywork. I think the cooling requirements then make it tricky to move all the coolers up above the engine - if you can then all that bulk is ahead of the rear wing, so any gains you're making for the diffuser are having the opposite effect higher up. Then there's the other issues of COG height mentioned - every mm is ~0.01s of laptime lost.

F1 design is compromise, far extremes tend not to be optimal.
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w1Y
w1Y
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:49 am

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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Just had to say I had the exact same thought in my head 2 days ago and the picture I had in me head was pretty much exactly what you have drawn

DRCorsa
DRCorsa
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post? :wtf:

izzy
izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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DRCorsa wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:43 am
Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post? :wtf:
awesome :)

Hope it's at least mainly true. I was reading something a while ago about Mercedes' radiator designs, methods.

theblackangus
theblackangus
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:03 am

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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DRCorsa wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:43 am
Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post? :wtf:
Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.

LM10
LM10
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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theblackangus wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:27 pm
DRCorsa wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:43 am
Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post? :wtf:
Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.
He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.

theblackangus
theblackangus
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Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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LM10 wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:31 pm
theblackangus wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:27 pm
DRCorsa wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:43 am
Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post? :wtf:
Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.
He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.
Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?

izzy
izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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theblackangus wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:31 pm
theblackangus wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:27 pm


Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.
He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.
Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?
The safety structure can be more like two wings I think, they're basically two tubes one upper and one lower. Plus an anti-intrusion panel. Also Mercedes have kept checking with FIA all the time, and after all a hollow sidepod is a duct onto the beam wing! But yes corriere seem quite excited about it.

theblackangus
theblackangus
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:03 am

Re: Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

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izzy wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:51 pm
theblackangus wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:31 pm


He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.
Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?
The safety structure can be more like two wings I think, they're basically two tubes one upper and one lower. Plus an anti-intrusion panel. Also Mercedes have kept checking with FIA all the time, and after all a hollow sidepod is a duct onto the beam wing! But yes corriere seem quite excited about it.
I understand what the side impact structures actually look like, but w/o something spanning them the nose of a car would directly contact the tub on 1st impact most likely, which seems like a bad scenario.

Is Merc supposed to show up at the next test with this new design or the 1st race?