McLaren MCL36

[vorticism]

According to the team, they are missing downforce, and quite a lot of it.

They are sending about a quarter less air under the floor than the other teams, that might have something to do with it.

[SmallSoldier]

According to the team, they are missing downforce, and quite a lot of it.

They are sending about a quarter less air under the floor than the other teams, that might have something to do with it.

How did we determine this? The pictures of the RB18 and MCL36 floors seem to suggest that McLaren has a larger inlet towards the floor than RB

[vorticism]

I looked at the t-tray photo. Its width is about 25% of the total width of the floor entrance. That quarter gets diverted above the floor instead of under it, like the other teams. Not saying its good nor bad. That should reduce the positive lift of the floor entry, which is a giant ramp. Plus factoring in numerous other details will define floor downforce: tunnel shape, floor edge, diffuser details, beam wing, etc.

[SmallSoldier]

I looked at the t-tray photo. Its width is about 25% of the total width of the floor entrance. That quarter gets diverted above the floor instead of under it, like the other teams. Not saying its good nor bad. That should reduce the positive lift of the floor entry, which is a giant ramp. Plus factoring in numerous other details will define floor downforce: tunnel shape, floor edge, diffuser details, beam wing, etc.

If I’m not wrong, only the space between the first strake and the edge of the Tunnel feed the Tunnel itself… If that’s the case, then the MCL36 seems to have a larger inlet area than the RB18… Furthermore, even when they do use the space between the T-Tray and the edge of the Tunnel to feed air above the tunnel entrance and to the bottom area of the sidepods, the RB18 uses this same area for a wider T-Tray (they are not using that space to increase the inlet of the Tunnel)

[vorticism]

I looked at the t-tray photo. Its width is about 25% of the total width of the floor entrance. That quarter gets diverted above the floor instead of under it, like the other teams. Not saying its good nor bad. That should reduce the positive lift of the floor entry, which is a giant ramp. Plus factoring in numerous other details will define floor downforce: tunnel shape, floor edge, diffuser details, beam wing, etc.

If I’m not wrong, only the space between the first strake and the edge of the Tunnel feed the Tunnel itself… If that’s the case, then the MCL36 seems to have a larger inlet area than the RB18… Furthermore, even when they do use the space between the T-Tray and the edge of the Tunnel to feed air above the tunnel entrance and to the bottom area of the sidepods, the RB18 uses this same area for a wider T-Tray (they are not using that space to increase the inlet of the Tunnel)

Sort, of. The rakes move flow outward but not all of it. They don't touch the ground, there is spill over. Regardless: The inner edge of the tunnel is moved outward on the Mclaren. Every other team have the inner edge of the tunnel defined by the intersection with the t-tray/bib. Look at it again, assembled. It's posted on this forum somewhere. Every other car including RB divert flow laterally under the floor edge, in the same region.

[SmallSoldier]

Mclaren’s Tunnel Entrance:



Red Bull’s Tunnel Entrance



Red Bull’s is smaller than McLaren, as a matter of fact they seem to use a larger amount of air for outwash / floor “sealing”… I still don’t understand how you came out with McLaren using 25% less area for the floor

[vorticism]

Total frontal area. Draw it out as a front view. Area beneath nosecone/drive cell known as t-tray/bib is roughly a quarter of the width of the floor entrance. On RB this area is diverted laterally below the floor. On McLaren it's diverted laterally above the floor.

[SmallSoldier]

Total frontal area. Draw it out as a front view. Area beneath nosecone/drive cell known as t-tray/bib is roughly a quarter of the width of the floor entrance. On RB this area is diverted laterally. On McLaren it's diverted above the floor.

If you calculate it, please share it, would be very interesting… I don’t think your assessment is right based… But I’ll admit that I haven’t made the calculation myself, though based on all the pictures out there, the MCL36 entrance seems not only not 25% smaller, but larger than the RB18… Which has one of the largest amount of DF from the floor itself.

[vorticism]

Total frontal area. Draw it out as a front view. Area beneath nosecone/drive cell known as t-tray/bib is roughly a quarter of the width of the floor entrance. On RB this area is diverted laterally. On McLaren it's diverted above the floor.

If you calculate it, please share it, would be very interesting… I don’t think your assessment is right based… But I’ll admit that I haven’t made the calculation myself, though based on all the pictures out there, the MCL36 entrance seems not only not 25% smaller, but larger than the RB18… Which has one of the largest amount of DF from the floor itself.

You don't have to calculate it, you can just look at the photo of the mclaren floor you posted. See that gap in the middle above the t-tray? That's about a quarter of the floor entrance width. I'm saying roughly, not 25% +/-.01%.

That same area where that gap is, on the other cars, that area of airflow is diverted under the floor, like on the RB you posted, it has to flow sideways under the floor. My guess is that Mclaren are trying to reduce the positive lift of the tunnel entrance, which would reduce their total downforce requirements.

[kalinka]

Also worth to mention what PlatinumZealot pointed out in RB18 thread : "The entries to the floor are also shorter inboard and taller outboard ( RB18) . The opposite of most teams."
It points to a very different airflow concept, so it may not be worth directly comparing them.

[Emag]

Also worth to mention what PlatinumZealot pointed out in RB18 thread : "The entries to the floor are also shorter inboard and taller outboard ( RB18) . The opposite of most teams."
It points to a very different airflow concept, so it may not be worth directly comparing them.

RedBull have one of the more unique floor leading edge in general as well as the entrance strakes. It's probably the most developed floor on the grid at the moment (at least visually).

If you compare the McLaren's tunnel entrance with some of the other cars then they are all pretty similar if you ignore the fact that McLaren is using some of the entrance area as a channel to push air on top of the sidepods.

[daren_p]

You don't have to calculate it, you can just look at the photo of the mclaren floor you posted. See that gap in the middle above the t-tray? That's about a quarter of the floor entrance width. I'm saying roughly, not 25% +/-.01%.

Maybe I'm not properly understanding you either but the gap your talking about in the middle above the t-tray on the McLaren, as SmallSoldier is trying to point out is blocked off on the RB, with them having a round keel shape above the t-tray.

[vorticism]

Maybe I'm not properly understanding you either but the gap your talking about in the middle above the t-tray on the McLaren, as SmallSoldier is trying to point out is blocked off on the RB, with them having a round keel shape above the t-tray.

Right but ask yourself where that air goes on the RB.

[shady]

According to the team, they are missing downforce, and quite a lot of it.

They are sending about a quarter less air under the floor than the other teams, that might have something to do with it.

I mean.. the idea is to try and have as low pressure under the car as possible (aka vacuum) probably a balance but I would think thats the point. 'less air' or higher velocity air (bernoulli)

[SmallSoldier]

Maybe I'm not properly understanding you either but the gap your talking about in the middle above the t-tray on the McLaren, as SmallSoldier is trying to point out is blocked off on the RB, with them having a round keel shape above the t-tray.

Right but ask yourself where that air goes on the RB.

I believe I may not be explaining myself well enough… The space that McLaren uses to divert air on top of the tunnels is the space that Red Bull uses for the keel… They don’t use “more” of the T-Tray volume than McLaren for it… In addition, the area between the most inward part of the Tunnel and the first strake in the MCL36 is larger than the one in the RB18, which is what ultimately feeds air into the Tunnel