2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
NL_Fer
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:46 am
What's interesting is that they don't mention a turbo in the note. Just says high revving 2.4-2.6 litre V6. What if the scrap the turbo entirely and go back to super high revs?

New manufacturers would appear out of the woodworks to make a simple budget capped n/a engine.
I would not expect any exotic combustion engine anymore. Probably will be a standard turbocharged racing engine, with same revs like current powerunit.

Probably they make it cheap and simple, to make it interesting enough for a small manufacturer like Aston Martin, to built it themselves and maybe buy the electric part from Mercedes. I don’t think Renault is very keen on spending too much on the combustion part.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:50 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:46 am
What's interesting is that they don't mention a turbo in the note. Just says high revving 2.4-2.6 litre V6. What if the scrap the turbo entirely and go back to super high revs?

New manufacturers would appear out of the woodworks to make a simple budget capped n/a engine.
I would not expect any exotic combustion engine anymore. Probably will be a standard turbocharged racing engine, with same revs like current powerunit.

Probably they make it cheap and simple, to make it interesting enough for a small manufacturer like Aston Martin, to built it themselves and maybe buy the electric part from Mercedes. I don’t think Renault is very keen on spending too much on the combustion part.
Then Renault can GTFO and make room for other manufacturers that are...🙄

vorticism
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Spectacle is the word of the day for the FIA, thus I have two more words to offer them: jettisonable JATOs. And to that, yet more: 100% sustainable solid rocket fuels. Hybridization? Yes, Jim. But not as we know it.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:11 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:50 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:46 am
What's interesting is that they don't mention a turbo in the note. Just says high revving 2.4-2.6 litre V6. What if the scrap the turbo entirely and go back to super high revs?

New manufacturers would appear out of the woodworks to make a simple budget capped n/a engine.
I would not expect any exotic combustion engine anymore. Probably will be a standard turbocharged racing engine, with same revs like current powerunit.

Probably they make it cheap and simple, to make it interesting enough for a small manufacturer like Aston Martin, to built it themselves and maybe buy the electric part from Mercedes. I don’t think Renault is very keen on spending too much on the combustion part.
Then Renault can GTFO and make room for other manufacturers that are...🙄
But there does not seem to be a line of them waiting at the door. I would like to see very 'exotic' engines, but if it ends up with only Ferrari and Merc making engines, and one of those feel it is time to leave, F1 will be in deep crap.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:24 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:11 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:50 pm


I would not expect any exotic combustion engine anymore. Probably will be a standard turbocharged racing engine, with same revs like current powerunit.

Probably they make it cheap and simple, to make it interesting enough for a small manufacturer like Aston Martin, to built it themselves and maybe buy the electric part from Mercedes. I don’t think Renault is very keen on spending too much on the combustion part.
Then Renault can GTFO and make room for other manufacturers that are...🙄
But there does not seem to be a line of them waiting at the door. I would like to see very 'exotic' engines, but if it ends up with only Ferrari and Merc making engines, and one of those feel it is time to leave, F1 will be in deep crap.

This belief that the holes need to be filled by kissing the participant's butts is absurd.

There are ZERO sports where the players have the kind of influence as F1 currently does.

Make the rules. Set them in stone. Open the tender and do NOT believe that it will fail without certain participants.

After that, the racing will sort the rest.

mzso
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:29 pm
Make the rules. Set them in stone. Open the tender and do NOT believe that it will fail without certain participants.

After that, the racing will sort the rest.
Yet, the sportscar world championship was successfully killed, when an engine that no-one wanted to use was forced.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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mzso wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:29 pm
Make the rules. Set them in stone. Open the tender and do NOT believe that it will fail without certain participants.

After that, the racing will sort the rest.
Yet, the sportscar world championship was successfully killed, when an engine that no-one wanted to use was forced.
Bad ideas will have consequences.

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djos
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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johnny comelately wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:23 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:04 am
johnny comelately wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:57 am


One of the subjects in Pat Symonds talk is NOx which is greatly reduced in these current F1 engines courtesy of the lower temperatures from lean of peak effect.
Yeah, same with current sophisticated 2-strokes, & FYI Johnny, ol' Pat is on record as favouring
a lifting of the longstanding ban on 2-strokes, for future F1..
Disclaimer: harbour a large bias for 2 strokes having broken and cut much of me on them = Respect for their (once) peculiar power personalities.
I remember Symonds P. bringing that up and wondered if there was influence coming from Walker J.
A comment at the time from one of the fraternity was "he mustn't know engines very much" (why was Pat nominated, self or otherwise, being a self-confessed chassis man. All that aside I am very grateful for the first, that I know of, partial expose for the most intriguing technical revolution of recent times. IMHO.
The brief reasoning for the comment is 1.the inhibition of duration and 2.overlap complications, there is only 360 degrees to deal with all that goings on.
Even with turbocharging and huge gas exchange potential with any manner of port configurations, bore stroke ratio compromises and number of cylinders.
And I'm talking 6K to whatever RPM engines, not 300 RPM marines.
Having said all that, the little SkiDoo goes impressively close!
The biggest issue with 2-stroke engines IMO, is the stupidly narrow powerband - they would make F1 cars undrivable. I reckon the 80's turbo cars would be more drivable than an NA 2-stroke F1 car!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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djos
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Zynerji wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:37 am
mzso wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:29 pm
Make the rules. Set them in stone. Open the tender and do NOT believe that it will fail without certain participants.

After that, the racing will sort the rest.
Yet, the sportscar world championship was successfully killed, when an engine that no-one wanted to use was forced.
Bad ideas will have consequences.
I stopped watching WEC when Audi showed up with Diesel engines - Diesel's belong in Semi-trucks, tractors and large commercial vehicles, not in race cars and passenger cars, IMHO. It's not that I dont like the engines, it's the toxic cancer causing by-products they emit that I dislike (plus they are not much fun to drive unless torque is all you care about).
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

vorticism
vorticism
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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djos wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:52 am
(plus they are not much fun to drive unless torque is all you care about).
But enough about EVs. :)

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djos
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:40 am
djos wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:52 am
(plus they are not much fun to drive unless torque is all you care about).
But enough about EVs. :)
Lol, the good ones are actually a lot of fun, even if the soundtrack is almost nil.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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djos wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:52 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:37 am
mzso wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 pm

Yet, the sportscar world championship was successfully killed, when an engine that no-one wanted to use was forced.
Bad ideas will have consequences.
I stopped watching WEC when Audi showed up with Diesel engines - Diesel's belong in Semi-trucks, tractors and large commercial vehicles, not in race cars and passenger cars, IMHO. It's not that I dont like the engines, it's the toxic cancer causing by-products they emit that I dislike (plus they are not much fun to drive unless torque is all you care about).
Btw. The diesel semitrucks racing on Burningwhee1s are fun as heck to watch as well!

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djos
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Zynerji wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:31 am

Btw. The diesel semitrucks racing on Burningwhee1s are fun as heck to watch as well!
I rather enjoy the 5800lb Tractor pull class - there's just something oddly entertaining watching giant Diesel's driven to destruction! :mrgreen:

That said, I'd never go see them in person, I'm not keen on breathing in all those carcinogens!

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

vorticism
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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You should go, they'd get a kick out of someone walking around wearing a respirator.

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djos
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:40 am
You should go, they'd get a kick out of someone walking around wearing a respirator.
lol, I doubt that would stop those insanely tiny carcinogenic particles!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.