Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Jolle
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
You might have missed a lot he's been doing? Hamilton's efforts with The Hamilton Commission isn't about getting drivers from different backgrounds into motorsport, but to get minorities into engineering, science and technical jobs, with motorsport as the halo. Not only is he preaching this, he put about 30 million of his own money into this

https://www.raeng.org.uk/diversity-in-e ... commission
its also not just some "woke bs", there is actual research done on this subject, by the Hamilton commission by accomplished researches with credentials: https://www.hamiltoncommission.org/the-report

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:08 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 8:26 pm


F1 isn't diverse?

20 drivers...You have Mexican , Chinese , Thai , English , Spanish , Australian , Canadian, Monaco, Danish, Dutch, Japanese, German.

Personally I feel its been a 'lonely road' for him is that he never bothers t mingle and have banter with the other drivers on the grid/pits/podiums etc. He just keeps to himself (and Angela). If you dont join in with the group activities/socialism, then you get left out and there's nobody to blame for that but yourself IMHO. It also shouldn't be forgotten about how he got there...funded by Ron Dennis on his 'lonely journey' in F1.
You know what i realise? You didn't listen to all the words in the video. Lewis literally explained that he is talking about the INDUSTRY. Not the drivers.

He said there are 40,000 jobs. And less than 1% is from black background.

In a team of 500 persons. Thats like less than 5 people that might be black or maybe half or quarter black.

Zynergi who shares your views, says that will destroy the industry if there are 1% or more POC in the teams. :mrgreen:

You guys are overreacting! :wink:


What is the percentage of POC in F1 compared to the percentage of POC in the total world population?

My impression is that especially the Chinese for example would be massivly more underrepresented in F1 compared to total world population than POC.

Everything points to economic background and stable nuclear family being the main differentiator in opportunity, rather than race. And in many cases it's the total dedication of the father who drives millions of miles to kart tracks all over europe for years with his son that brings them into F1 (HAM, VER, VET,...)

Michael Schumacher came from nothing and earned every right to pave his son's way into F1 just like HAM would do if he had a kid. Same for Verstappen, Vettel, Rosberg and probably many many others.

Every driver on the grid had circumstances in their live influence on how they got their cockpit. That doesnt mean they don’t deserve to be in F1. If HAM was white, you'd add him to your "priviledge list" as well as he was supported, fostered and sponsored by a white old man since he was just a child. But you didnt.

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hollus
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Folks, keep it civil and debate the post, not the poster.
I have removed a whole Covid discussion, how did Covid get into this thread? Of course because of the tendency to attack the poster, not the post. I have also removed posts which were personal attack first, content second. Sorry about the content, keep the personal stuff out next time.

Don't make things personal. Posters here as as diverse as Hamilton would like F1 or STEM to be, maybe. Let's embrace the differences and avoid personal attacks so that the subject can be discussed instead.

For the record, this subject would ordinarily be off topic, but then FIA or drivers bring it up themselves...
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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SiLo
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
Alonso is essentially finding drivers, which if you bothered to understand what Hamilton is trying to achieve, would recognise is not the issue he is trying to highlight.

Now if you had suggested that Hamilton build his own school then maybe it might have some legs, but there are a lot of other restrictions that come with building and running a school in that a lot of the curriculum is defined by government.

Increasing STEM opportunities for minorities or poorer people is an excellent way to try and increase the diversity of the sport and also help educate those less fortunate that might have been previously not have had access to better education.
Felipe Baby!

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Redragon
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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SiLo wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 6:01 pm
Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
Alonso is essentially finding drivers, which if you bothered to understand what Hamilton is trying to achieve, would recognise is not the issue he is trying to highlight.

Now if you had suggested that Hamilton build his own school then maybe it might have some legs, but there are a lot of other restrictions that come with building and running a school in that a lot of the curriculum is defined by government.

Increasing STEM opportunities for minorities or poorer people is an excellent way to try and increase the diversity of the sport and also help educate those less fortunate that might have been previously not have had access to better education.
What ever is the path, what I meant is, he has the money, the experience and influence to do it. So if he doesn't do it others will not do as will not identify the problem. I put as example Alonso as it is the one I know most doing for new generations and coming from humble background. If Hamilton is doing on other areas great for him and the new generation and welcome that is doing what he preach.

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SiLo
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 6:13 pm
SiLo wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 6:01 pm
Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
Alonso is essentially finding drivers, which if you bothered to understand what Hamilton is trying to achieve, would recognise is not the issue he is trying to highlight.

Now if you had suggested that Hamilton build his own school then maybe it might have some legs, but there are a lot of other restrictions that come with building and running a school in that a lot of the curriculum is defined by government.

Increasing STEM opportunities for minorities or poorer people is an excellent way to try and increase the diversity of the sport and also help educate those less fortunate that might have been previously not have had access to better education.
What ever is the path, what I meant is, he has the money, the experience and influence to do it. So if he doesn't do it others will not do as will not identify the problem. I put as example Alonso as it is the one I know most doing for new generations and coming from humble background. If Hamilton is doing on other areas great for him and the new generation and welcome that is doing what he preach.
Well he's already pledged £20 million towards the commission to kick it off. Other than educating people himself I'm not sure what else he can do, that money pays for people that actually know how to do this stuff and make it work.
Felipe Baby!

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA
"According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2020 was composed of 74.2 percent black players, 16.9 percent white players, 2.2 percent Latino players of any race, and 0.4 percent Asian players."

How about we start a charity to have less black people and more people from other ethnicities on the NBA? I think it's a sport dominated by people of african descent and it doesn't seem fair to me.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 5:17 pm

What is the percentage of POC in F1 compared to the percentage of POC in the total world population?
Persons of Black heritage in F1 is less than 1% according to the study. It could be 0.01% it could be 0.99%. You will have to check the exact figure.

I think there are two black mechanics in F1 currentlty. And one black woman tribologist who was hand-picked by Lewis.

Can't use world population to compare ratios. use the UK would be more accurate becauae Switzerland and Italy you can sorta rule those out.

Black is 3% and Mixed is 2% in the UK. So you can use anywhere from 3% to 5% for your comparison.

My impression is that especially the Chinese for example would be massivly more underrepresented in F1 compared to total world population than POC.
Compare the Chinese in the UK then. If he sees a problem, and has the initiative to do so, Zhou could do a study if he felt Chinese are finding it difficult/don't see a need/ dont get opportunity to enter into STEM motorsport jobs and such in the UK. It would be a nice study and I would love to see it. I wouldn't bash him as to say he is a fool or he's trying to destroy the sport.
Everything points to economic background and stable nuclear family being the main differentiator in opportunity, rather than race. And in many cases it's the total dedication of the father who drives millions of miles to kart tracks all over europe for years with his son that brings them into F1 (HAM, VER, VET,...)
Disagreed. All due respect you are clearly sheltered and never witnessed these issues.
If intereted you can read about effect of slavery on nuclear families. To undertsand how messed up that was, families were routinely separated. Mothers raped for punishement etc. Father's used as breeding studs. You obviously don't know about this stuff. But it's out there if you want to read that.

Michael Schumacher came from nothing and earned every right to pave his son's way into F1 just like HAM would do if he had a kid. Same for Verstappen, Vettel, Rosberg and probably many many others.
Michael schumacher's family owned/operated a Karting track. Came from nothing? Poor people can't own Karting tracks so he may not have been from a rich family but he had maybe the best set of resources to master karting.
Every driver on the grid had circumstances in their live influence on how they got their cockpit. That doesnt mean they don’t deserve to be in F1. If HAM was white, you'd add him to your "priviledge list" as well as he was supported, fostered and sponsored by a white old man since he was just a child. But you didnt.
No one said other drivers don't deserve to be in F1.
I reckon if HAM were white there wouldn't be any Lewis Hamilton the F1 racer!
The racism they faced likely gave him and his dad the extra drive to succeed.

I have a good video for you to watch as a starter. It does not go into the history of colonization and what it means to be a second class citizen, which is an added complication, it look at basic environmental factors, then compare that to what the average POC community is like (remember civil rights were just a few decades ago). Obviously economics is a factor but that in itself is another barrier that POC have to break.

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hollus
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Black is 3% and Mixed is 2% in the UK. So you can use anywhere from 3% to 5% for your comparison.

I think to be realistic this would have to be weighed by wealth. A motorsport career is a very, very expensive endeavor. And to a large extent, so is a STEM degree, with fees, no full time job well into your 20s, etc. I would not be so shocked if the figure came closer to 1% when weighed by wealth.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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I don’t agree with the premise of using the UK's population as reference when F1 is a global sport. That's selective data.

You even completely dismissed italy which hosts 2 of the teams for what reason exactly?

If this is about fair and equal representation of all ethnicties then you have to look at a global scale imo.

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Zynerji
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
That's called "virtue signalling", and unfortunately is all the woke really do...

J.A.W.
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Nobody mention the dreaded book "The Bell Curve", its too contentious.. (Oops, I just did).

However, given the educational/practical technical background which is a prerequisite for an
engineering-based role in F1, some kind of familial support is likely needful, even before any
kind of a scholarship 'affirmative action' deal is considered...

Over 60 years ago, when Ace USAF pilot Chuck Yeager was in charge of the initial 'Astronaut'
training intake, he was ordered by political decree to include a 'diverse' class member & to
ensure that the 'coloured' candidate be passed for 1st team space-flight duty.

Yeager attempted to explain the manifold variables any/every prospective candidate had to
match, or be 'washed out', & that none could be guaranteed a place in advance, since as he
said, if that was possible, he'd be the number one American Astronaut himself!


As a comparison to F1, another 'sport of the wealthy'- international horse events, from polo-playing through equestrian to thoroughbred racing - these teams employ what % of 'coloured folks'?

Far less technically demanding, yet masterful riding/mount excellence, but just as 'image conscious'?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Jolle
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm
Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
That's called "virtue signalling", and unfortunately is all the woke really do...
Like if he would, lets say, donate 20 million pounds to empower young people from under-represented groups in the UK? Or build a trust with the heads of the engineering uni's of the UK, both sides of parliament and representatives from the industry?

I think it's a bit more then put some kids on karts.

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Zynerji
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Jolle wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 3:58 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm
Redragon wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 1:02 pm
Alonso had similar upbringing coming from a poor family but overcome the obstacles by raw talent as Hamilton has have. I am sure Hamilton might have been more difficult because of color of skin as he is expressing but both are using their influences and money in different ways. Alonso has created an academy to help new generations from any background to have a change on motor racing, soon to open his second one in china. Also sponsors esports with a team, helping talents not only physically but virtually.

I am waiting for Hamilton to do the same, if it is so difficult to be a person of colour to access motosport, why he is not preaching his words and create an academy to search for that talent and help them to overcome those challegings he faced.

Until then is just words and not action to resolve the problem. He has the money, the influence and personal experience to do it. But instead is asking others to do it
That's called "virtue signalling", and unfortunately is all the woke really do...
Like if he would, lets say, donate 20 million pounds to empower young people from under-represented groups in the UK? Or build a trust with the heads of the engineering uni's of the UK, both sides of parliament and representatives from the industry?

I think it's a bit more then put some kids on karts.
It would be worth way more than money if he scheduled speaking tours at schools teaching the diverse that it was up to them to work hard and put in the effort and discipline to achieve their dreams.

Making excuses why some don't make it makes people feel that the game is rigged, and they simply won't participate.

His report will drive more people away than it entices.

Lewis isn't the GOAT because someone felt sorry that he is black. He is the GOAT because he overcame hundreds of setbacks through determination.

Jolle
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Re: Hamilton Study about F1 Jobs

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:56 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 3:58 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:51 pm

That's called "virtue signalling", and unfortunately is all the woke really do...
Like if he would, lets say, donate 20 million pounds to empower young people from under-represented groups in the UK? Or build a trust with the heads of the engineering uni's of the UK, both sides of parliament and representatives from the industry?

I think it's a bit more then put some kids on karts.
It would be worth way more than money if he scheduled speaking tours at schools teaching the diverse that it was up to them to work hard and put in the effort and discipline to achieve their dreams.

Making excuses why some don't make it makes people feel that the game is rigged, and they simply won't participate.

His report will drive more people away than it entices.

Lewis isn't the GOAT because someone felt sorry that he is black. He is the GOAT because he overcame hundreds of setbacks through determination.
You mean, minorities aren’t represented enough because they don’t put in the work?

First you accuse “woke” of being all talk, then I point out that he does put up actual money to do something meaningful and then you say he should only talk..