2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

do you know what was the issue of Perez ?

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viewtopic.php?p=1069334#p1069334

[henry]

Meanwhile…

Toto Wolff mentioned that the RB18 runs more rake than most. Obviously not the tail high levels of yesteryear but even a small rake could, I think, have some benefits. It would, for instance, lead to the front of the floor striking the ground instead of the whole floor, this will bring into play the front floor suspension mechanism which will reduce the contact force and hence drag. This would definitely reduce peak Gs compared with a full floor slam.

It will also allow lower spring rates at the rear which will lower the natural frequency of any oscillations giving the undercar airflow more time to reattach if it were to become disturbed.

The RB18 also has a good deal of anti-dive in the front suspension kinematics, this will reduce the load on the front floor during high speed braking manoeuvres. I made an earlier suggestion that hysteresis in the front floor suspension could be beneficial, maybe the anti-dive points at it being less useful than I suggested.

[AR3-GP]

Great race by Verstappen again, flawless under pressure. Impressive!

Sad for Perez and worrying there are still issues.

Ferrari seems to have a little more pace which is worrying for Red Bull. This championship is far from over still.

I think RB even if there is a pace deficit still has an upper hand in the championship. Ferrari still has reliability problems. And it will cost them. RB could probably go til the end without engine penalties, while Leclerc will definitely have another grid drop.

Even if he has (I agree it likely, although he has 2 new of everything now) it will be a small one as he is in the 5 places drop category now with all components. This (Canada) was the tough one to swallow but they judged that well imho.

Mercedes might make the penalties for Ferrari more difficult. Even if only 5 places.

[organic]

Looking forward to seeing what the team has cooked up in Silverstone. 6 wins in a row is excellent considering Ferrari have had a very good car and some of their best tracks in this period. Good fortune balances out the early season.

[Gillian]

Even if he has (I agree it likely, although he has 2 new of everything now) it will be a small one as he is in the 5 places drop category now with all components. This (Canada) was the tough one to swallow but they judged that well imho.

Still long season to go though...

I think the most encouraging of this race has been Verstappen. He did not set a foot wrong during qualifying, then won a race with a (slightly) slower car... He took the pressure and kept his cool. If he keeps driving like that, reliability is the only thing that can stop him.

I don't know that it was a slower car overall (unless you mean just top speed?) it is at times and not at others. I think throughout the race it was the best car to be in, but as Max was hardly under pressure he would not have been 100% out. If I had to chose 'my' car to race it would be the RBR at the moment. This has changed for some races and will again. Silverstone looks to be a Ferrari gain.

Hardly under pressure? Did we see the same race?

This particular race the Ferrari was faster, not Mercedes 2014 margins by a mile, but a few tenths on average certainly. The Ferrari was pretty kind on its tires too this weekend, which was the strength of RB in other races. Juzh and Dialtone posted telemetry and analysis which clearly shows the (small) Ferrari advantage this weekend.

Sainz didn't win because:
1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap
2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight
3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed.

[Big Tea]

Still long season to go though...

I think the most encouraging of this race has been Verstappen. He did not set a foot wrong during qualifying, then won a race with a (slightly) slower car... He took the pressure and kept his cool. If he keeps driving like that, reliability is the only thing that can stop him.

I don't know that it was a slower car overall (unless you mean just top speed?) it is at times and not at others. I think throughout the race it was the best car to be in, but as Max was hardly under pressure he would not have been 100% out. If I had to chose 'my' car to race it would be the RBR at the moment. This has changed for some races and will again. Silverstone looks to be a Ferrari gain.

Hardly under pressure? Did we see the same race?

This particular race the Ferrari was faster, not Mercedes 2014 margins by a mile, but a few tenths on average certainly. The Ferrari was pretty kind on its tires too this weekend, which was the strength of RB in other races. Juzh and Dialtone posted telemetry and analysis which clearly shows the (small) Ferrari advantage this weekend.

Sainz didn't win because:
1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap
2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight
3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed.

Each of those means that through the race as whole, the RBR was the better car or the Ferrari would have finished infront of it.

1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap - self explanatory, the best car in that sector (with driver assistance no doubt)

2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight - Just the once or every time? Either way it means he was pushing harder than the car infront who did not.

3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed. Had they left the previous corner more quickly, this would not be the case.

As I said, It is my opinion. It may not be correct, but that's what an opinion is.

[organic]

Sainz, Binotto and Max all said post-race that Ferrari had better pace on Sunday than the RB18. Max said he was a bit surprised at their lack of pace in the race. That is enough consensus for me to agree; sure, it wasn't enough of an advantage for Sainz to beat/overtake Verstappen, but I think much of that could be explained by dirty air, driver difference and race circumstances. Without the late SC, Sainz probably stays ahead which Max also reckoned post-race

[Gillian]

I don't know that it was a slower car overall (unless you mean just top speed?) it is at times and not at others. I think throughout the race it was the best car to be in, but as Max was hardly under pressure he would not have been 100% out. If I had to chose 'my' car to race it would be the RBR at the moment. This has changed for some races and will again. Silverstone looks to be a Ferrari gain.

Hardly under pressure? Did we see the same race?

This particular race the Ferrari was faster, not Mercedes 2014 margins by a mile, but a few tenths on average certainly. The Ferrari was pretty kind on its tires too this weekend, which was the strength of RB in other races. Juzh and Dialtone posted telemetry and analysis which clearly shows the (small) Ferrari advantage this weekend.

Sainz didn't win because:
1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap
2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight
3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed.

Each of those means that through the race as whole, the RBR was the better car or the Ferrari would have finished infront of it.

1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap - self explanatory, the best car in that sector (with driver assistance no doubt)

2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight - Just the once or every time? Either way it means he was pushing harder than the car infront who did not.

3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed. Had they left the previous corner more quickly, this would not be the case.

As I said, It is my opinion. It may not be correct, but that's what an opinion is.

I appreciate your posts so no need for the "my opinion" disclaimers.

Your reasoning is different than mine on 2 aspects:

Had Sainz been in front of Verstappen he would have driven away because his car had a little more speed over the entire lap.

You correlate making mistakes (Sainz) to maximum pace of a car and vice versa. Verstappen did not make a single mistake in the final run and maximized. Sainz could have done a little better. You can actually check it back, there was a lap or 2 where he slowed done earlier and could get on the throttle a little sooner. If he kept doing that he might have overtaken Verstappen.

But that's just my opinion

[Big Tea]

Hardly under pressure? Did we see the same race?

This particular race the Ferrari was faster, not Mercedes 2014 margins by a mile, but a few tenths on average certainly. The Ferrari was pretty kind on its tires too this weekend, which was the strength of RB in other races. Juzh and Dialtone posted telemetry and analysis which clearly shows the (small) Ferrari advantage this weekend.

Sainz didn't win because:
1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap
2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight
3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed.

Each of those means that through the race as whole, the RBR was the better car or the Ferrari would have finished infront of it.

1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap - self explanatory, the best car in that sector (with driver assistance no doubt)

2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight - Just the once or every time? Either way it means he was pushing harder than the car infront who did not.

3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed. Had they left the previous corner more quickly, this would not be the case.

As I said, It is my opinion. It may not be correct, but that's what an opinion is.

I appreciate your posts so no need for the "my opinion" disclaimers.

Your reasoning is different than mine on 2 aspects:

Had Sainz been in front of Verstappen he would have driven away because his car had a little more speed over the entire lap.

You correlate making mistakes (Sainz) to maximum pace of a car and vice versa. Verstappen did not make a single mistake in the final run and maximized. Sainz could have done a little better. You can actually check it back, there was a lap or 2 where he slowed done earlier and could get on the throttle a little sooner. If he kept doing that he might have overtaken Verstappen.

But that's just my opinion

Its nice to have a different opinion without an argument (Thumb)

[Gillian]

Each of those means that through the race as whole, the RBR was the better car or the Ferrari would have finished infront of it.

1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap - self explanatory, the best car in that sector (with driver assistance no doubt)

2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight - Just the once or every time? Either way it means he was pushing harder than the car infront who did not.

3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed. Had they left the previous corner more quickly, this would not be the case.

As I said, It is my opinion. It may not be correct, but that's what an opinion is.

I appreciate your posts so no need for the "my opinion" disclaimers.

Your reasoning is different than mine on 2 aspects:

Had Sainz been in front of Verstappen he would have driven away because his car had a little more speed over the entire lap.

You correlate making mistakes (Sainz) to maximum pace of a car and vice versa. Verstappen did not make a single mistake in the final run and maximized. Sainz could have done a little better. You can actually check it back, there was a lap or 2 where he slowed done earlier and could get on the throttle a little sooner. If he kept doing that he might have overtaken Verstappen.

But that's just my opinion

Its nice to have a different opinion without an argument (Thumb)

Definitely!

[Sieper]

I think RB even if there is a pace deficit still has an upper hand in the championship. Ferrari still has reliability problems. And it will cost them. RB could probably go til the end without engine penalties, while Leclerc will definitely have another grid drop.

Even if he has (I agree it likely, although he has 2 new of everything now) it will be a small one as he is in the 5 places drop category now with all components. This (Canada) was the tough one to swallow but they judged that well imho.

Mercedes might make the penalties for Ferrari more difficult. Even if only 5 places.

True.

And starting fully from back (when you need 4 components x5 places) is also much harder this year as you don’t have a tire advantage against the top 10 anymore, all get fresh free tire choices. No longer used softs to start the race on.

That was also working against Leclerc yesterday.

[Sieper]

Each of those means that through the race as whole, the RBR was the better car or the Ferrari would have finished infront of it.

1 Verstappen aced sector 1 every single lap - self explanatory, the best car in that sector (with driver assistance no doubt)

2 Sainz went to hot into the corner before the final straight - Just the once or every time? Either way it means he was pushing harder than the car infront who did not.

3 Ferrari lacked just that little extra top speed. Had they left the previous corner more quickly, this would not be the case.

As I said, It is my opinion. It may not be correct, but that's what an opinion is.

I appreciate your posts so no need for the "my opinion" disclaimers.

Your reasoning is different than mine on 2 aspects:

Had Sainz been in front of Verstappen he would have driven away because his car had a little more speed over the entire lap.

You correlate making mistakes (Sainz) to maximum pace of a car and vice versa. Verstappen did not make a single mistake in the final run and maximized. Sainz could have done a little better. You can actually check it back, there was a lap or 2 where he slowed done earlier and could get on the throttle a little sooner. If he kept doing that he might have overtaken Verstappen.

But that's just my opinion

Its nice to have a different opinion without an argument (Thumb)

I am not sure Sainz had more pace. When he was closing on Max he had fresher tires. Due to the sc periods. Only the first stint he was indeed closing in. But you never know if max was consolidating already. Later he also had the tow and 3DRS. He almost lost the 1 second gap a few times.

In fact, Max his SC restart was perhaps the only moment this weekend that wasn’t spot on. And thus Sainz was right there.

[Drift4794]

Looking forward to seeing what the team has cooked up in Silverstone. 6 wins in a row is excellent considering Ferrari have had a very good car and some of their best tracks in this period. Good fortune balances out the early season.

According to Wazari on this forum, who has contacts with people at Milton Keynes, they'll bring a "major chassis and ERS upgrade"

[Big Tea]

I appreciate your posts so no need for the "my opinion" disclaimers.

Your reasoning is different than mine on 2 aspects:

Had Sainz been in front of Verstappen he would have driven away because his car had a little more speed over the entire lap.

You correlate making mistakes (Sainz) to maximum pace of a car and vice versa. Verstappen did not make a single mistake in the final run and maximized. Sainz could have done a little better. You can actually check it back, there was a lap or 2 where he slowed done earlier and could get on the throttle a little sooner. If he kept doing that he might have overtaken Verstappen.

But that's just my opinion

Its nice to have a different opinion without an argument (Thumb)

I am not sure Sainz had more pace. When he was closing on Max he had fresher tires. Due to the sc periods. Only the first stint he was indeed closing in. But you never know if max was consolidating already. Later he also had the tow and 3DRS. He almost lost the 1 second gap a few times.

In fact, Max his SC restart was perhaps the only moment this weekend that wasn’t spot on. And thus Sainz was right there.

Yes, it seemed to me that each time it came down to a head-to-heads Max had a fraction in hand. Of course, we do not know the whole story, he could have been struggling and given free reign to go balls out for 2 laps then give up.
We only see what we see, we do not know the details.

[Sieper]

Yes, very true.

It would be so great to have more real insider info. Even if years after a season. I would read those books. Even if they are just stories. Neweys how to built a race car has several of these insights. Although they are just anecdotal Ofcourse.