Mercedes W13

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chrisc90
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Re: Mercedes W13

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pursue_one's wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:57 pm
Interesting. Definitely looks a crack when the car is travelling faster (flaps folded flat) and once reduces speed it looks to go. Which would make sense given how the load is being applied.

Wonder if Merc are running a bit thin on the carbon to try save weight/costs? We also seen a brake duct/fin come off Lewis' car round copse as he went over the kerb.

Car looked relatively well today. Little bit bumpy when going round corners and very minimal bouncing from the onboards I seen.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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pursue_one's wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:57 pm
The front wing flap has been like that since Barcelona testing. Redbull and ferrari have followed suit and made their flap like that.

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organic
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Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:28 pm

The front wing flap has been like that since Barcelona testing. Redbull and ferrari have followed suit and made their flap like that.
Look at the section of the flap that actually connects to the nose directly - not the bit that we have all seen bending since testing.

There seems to be some damage as the front wing does not usually join to the nose like that

High speed:

Image

Low speed:

Image
Last edited by organic on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:28 pm
pursue_one's wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:57 pm
The front wing flap has been like that since Barcelona testing. Redbull and ferrari have followed suit and made their flap like that.
Look at the section of the flap that actually connects to the nose directly - not the bit that we have all seen bending since testing.

There seems to be some damage as the front wing does not usually join to the nose like that
Ah ok 👍
Looks like it broke

mkay
mkay
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Re: Mercedes W13

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It doesn't look like Mercedes is running more rake, nor has it changed the venturi channels underneath the floor. Perhaps an upgrade for a later GP?

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:08 pm
https://www.pmw-magazine.com/wp-content ... -of-13.jpg

Anyone got a good shot to compare this with? Can just about see the cooling inlet here - supposedly the inlet has changed a bit
The two upper ones are from the same image but one side mirrored
Image

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ringo
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Interesting no apparent change to the sidepods.
The floor received vortex generator treatment.
But the floor is still not as developed as the redbull. The holes in the side by the rear wheel are much simpler and the stay works in tension only to prevent buckling from low pressure, but it cannot prevent upward loads like the struts do under the redbull engine cover.
Merc is quite lethargic with updates compared to the other teams. Maybe their staff is too expensive and not worth their weight?
For Sure!!

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west52keep64
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Re: Mercedes W13

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The wing/nose "crack" is not really an issue, most of those fillets are pieces of thin carbon fiber applied to make sure they pass the minimum radius regulations. Look at the launch pictures of the McLaren nose to get a better idea, but they aren't structural.

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Shrieker
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Naaah, nothing a little bit of glue can't handle.
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Goblin42
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Re: Mercedes W13

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interesting top view of the W13 from the pitlane

Image

uchihaigor1701
uchihaigor1701
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Re: Mercedes W13

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mkay wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:01 pm
It doesn't look like Mercedes is running more rake, nor has it changed the venturi channels underneath the floor. Perhaps an upgrade for a later GP?
#-o That's what I wanted to know. If this was the direction why not already work? Perhaps due to the smooth track is not favorable

Andi76
Andi76
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Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:34 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:28 pm

The front wing flap has been like that since Barcelona testing. Redbull and ferrari have followed suit and made their flap like that.
Look at the section of the flap that actually connects to the nose directly - not the bit that we have all seen bending since testing.

There seems to be some damage as the front wing does not usually join to the nose like that

High speed:

https://i.imgur.com/wsEtnhn.png

Low speed:

https://i.imgur.com/gZxpuqf.png
Great picture. Maybe Mercedes remembered what Ferrari did in 2006 when the teams had the additional flaps above the front wing. They were attached to the nose and Ferrari invented an anchorage point which allowed the flap to have lateral movement. Some teams protested in Malaysia but the FIA declared it legal and Ferrari covered the movement with the addition of a small piece of fairing around the plane.
Last edited by Andi76 on Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W13

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ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:24 pm
Interesting no apparent change to the sidepods.
The floor received vortex generator treatment.
But the floor is still not as developed as the redbull. The holes in the side by the rear wheel are much simpler and the stay works in tension only to prevent buckling from low pressure, but it cannot prevent upward loads like the struts do under the redbull engine cover.
Merc is quite lethargic with updates compared to the other teams. Maybe their staff is too expensive and not worth their weight?
I disagree. I think this package was very cohesive and well thought-out from front to back. Touched on virtually every single area of the car and that middle section of the floor is now every bit as sophisticated as any other top team.

It’s the underfloor I’d love to see. Regardless, I think some people (not directing this at you) just want to see different side pods because it’s a visually dramatic change. Large bits of bodywork aren’t necessarily inherently worth huge chunks of time.

And there is still nothing to suggest that the side pods were the cause of any of the team’s issues. The aero porpoising has been cured since Barcelona. None of these upgrades were related to that issue or bottoming out. All downforce.

They’re just going to have to continue bringing downforce to the car to offset them running it higher than it was supposed to be in the tunnel.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Goblin42 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:20 am
interesting top view of the W13 from the pitlane

https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ul/261.jpg
The bodywork around the front suspension mounting points looks geared to let air spill over the nose and down to the sidepods.

Andi76
Andi76
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Re: Mercedes W13

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zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:20 am
ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:24 pm
Interesting no apparent change to the sidepods.
The floor received vortex generator treatment.
But the floor is still not as developed as the redbull. The holes in the side by the rear wheel are much simpler and the stay works in tension only to prevent buckling from low pressure, but it cannot prevent upward loads like the struts do under the redbull engine cover.
Merc is quite lethargic with updates compared to the other teams. Maybe their staff is too expensive and not worth their weight?
I disagree. I think this package was very cohesive and well thought-out from front to back. Touched on virtually every single area of the car and that middle section of the floor is now every bit as sophisticated as any other top team.

It’s the underfloor I’d love to see. Regardless, I think some people (not directing this at you) just want to see different side pods because it’s a visually dramatic change. Large bits of bodywork aren’t necessarily inherently worth huge chunks of time.

And there is still nothing to suggest that the side pods were the cause of any of the team’s issues. The aero porpoising has been cured since Barcelona. None of these upgrades were related to that issue or bottoming out. All downforce.

They’re just going to have to continue bringing downforce to the car to offset them running it higher than it was supposed to be in the tunnel.
I totally disagree with what you say about the sidepods. There is definetely a lot that suggests that these sidepods are a big reason for their problems.

There were three teams at the beginning of the season with "Micropods". Mercedes, Williams and McLaren. McLaren went away from that philosophy a few races ago. Now also Williams has left this path. They did not do that because these sidepods were advantageous and did not cause issues.
Next to the problems this design brings in relation to flexing of the floor(which was clearly proven by the addition of a second bracket in Canada)and its relation to porpoising, they obviously have realised in CFD and the windtunnel that these sidepods are not the way to go. Of course they must have a lot of disadvantages in terms of aerodynamics etc. otherwise they would not do such a huge change concept-wise.

With the bargeboards missing the front wheel wake hits the rear of the car, disturbing the airflow and also giving a drag penalty in comparison to the "big-sidepods" which are "pushing" the front-wheel wake away from the car, hitting the rear-tyres instead and reducing drag. Thats pretty obvious and was proven by CFD simulations in this forum. Even if some people here still doubt that, the performance and the problems of the cars were exactly what these CFD simulations suggested. In Mercedes case you also have the inlets going all the way down to the floor what takes away the possibility to create a lot of outwash and a pressurisation zone under the sidepod inlet. They try to compensate that with all these winglets and the massive wing they have in this area, but this also seems like a pretty draggy and less effective solution. Toto Wolfs comments in the first few races "we have to lose drag" and their problems regarding Topspeed were also exactly the problems to expect with CFD simulations like that. And Mercedes ongoing changes in that area support further supports this.

But anyway - at the end of the day all the teams now have gone in the opposite direction, leaving Mercedes the one and only team with these kind of sidepods. And that pretty much says everything. Especially in the era of the budget cap. Williams and McLaren would not have spent a lot of resources on changing the sidepods if they would not have been a source of their performance issues and the area they can improve the most. In the era of the budget cap, you do not change the sidepod-philosphy of your car completely if it is not the cause of any of your teams-issues.