2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mstar
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Michael wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:34 pm
A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.
Agree. I watched lewis for years, what makes him SO deadly in race pace is he has a great "feel" where the tyre/grip is and adapts accordingly each time he comes to the same corner next lap. He puts it in his brain and adjusts his driving next time to be faster in that corner. This works wonders when he has a car under him. You can see this a lot in longggg sweeping corners (less obvious in slower corners -but still there). Barcelona this season was a classic example how he adjusted his style through corners / throttle and braking and positioning for the corners. He never took the same corner the same lap after lap unless he knows its still the best way and cannot go quicker.

This is where i see Georges weakness which i won't go into but lewis shows this a lot vs george but people don't see it that much due to a dog of a car which is just not complaint to how lewis wants to "adapt" to to go faster and faster each time in a race. A example of this was the last 10 laps when lewis just left george for dust and pulled like 6 seconds in 10 laps.

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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“[Mercedes] told me that they will bring small upgrades to every race now(until Budapest), all these will be floor related.”
Last edited by pursue_one's on Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

f1jcw
f1jcw
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I wonder if it’s worth testing a flexible plank in practice

RonMexico
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Re: Mercedes W13

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mstar wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:22 pm
Michael wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:34 pm
A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.
Agree. I watched lewis for years, what makes him SO deadly in race pace is he has a great "feel" where the tyre/grip is and adapts accordingly each time he comes to the same corner next lap. He puts it in his brain and adjusts his driving next time to be faster in that corner. This works wonders when he has a car under him. You can see this a lot in longggg sweeping corners (less obvious in slower corners -but still there). Barcelona this season was a classic example how he adjusted his style through corners / throttle and braking and positioning for the corners. He never took the same corner the same lap after lap unless he knows its still the best way and cannot go quicker.

This is where i see Georges weakness which i won't go into but lewis shows this a lot vs george but people don't see it that much due to a dog of a car which is just not complaint to how lewis wants to "adapt" to to go faster and faster each time in a race. A example of this was the last 10 laps when lewis just left george for dust and pulled like 6 seconds in 10 laps.
On what planet is the W13 a dog?

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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only 2 races its been anything close to how lewis likes the car. Everywhere else its not been complaint to the circuit/set-up they want to run it

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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This car will be like the RB15 of 2019.
No man's land 3rd at best in the first half, dog in the straight, very inconsistent.

Second half of the year fighting for victory, and pretty mighty on specific tracks (Brazil, Hungary...) but still a bit inconsistent.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:17 pm
This car will be like the RB15 of 2019.
No man's land 3rd at best in the first half, dog in the straight, very inconsistent.

Second half of the year fighting for victory, and pretty mighty on specific tracks (Brazil, Hungary...) but still a bit inconsistent.
the cause of that was Mercedes abandoning the W10 development as the championship was well in the bag.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:17 pm
This car will be like the RB15 of 2019.
No man's land 3rd at best in the first half, dog in the straight, very inconsistent.

Second half of the year fighting for victory, and pretty mighty on specific tracks (Brazil, Hungary...) but still a bit inconsistent.
I can imagine them going back to the old ways of setting up for top speed and making the ground there, providing they have the traction out of corners. Without sidepods and a low drag setup, providing the car does not bounce under breaking, if they qualify infront, they should be hard to pass in the race.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Cassius
Cassius
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Re: Mercedes W13

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mstar wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:22 pm
Michael wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:34 pm
A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.
Agree. I watched lewis for years, what makes him SO deadly in race pace is he has a great "feel" where the tyre/grip is and adapts accordingly each time he comes to the same corner next lap. He puts it in his brain and adjusts his driving next time to be faster in that corner. This works wonders when he has a car under him. You can see this a lot in longggg sweeping corners (less obvious in slower corners -but still there). Barcelona this season was a classic example how he adjusted his style through corners / throttle and braking and positioning for the corners. He never took the same corner the same lap after lap unless he knows its still the best way and cannot go quicker.

This is where i see Georges weakness which i won't go into but lewis shows this a lot vs george but people don't see it that much due to a dog of a car which is just not complaint to how lewis wants to "adapt" to to go faster and faster each time in a race. A example of this was the last 10 laps when lewis just left george for dust and pulled like 6 seconds in 10 laps.
In Silverstone Lewis was losing 0.2s to Leclerc in corners 1 and 9 due to more management (according to Bono on the radio). So also Lewis is losing time when managing the tyres. However, he was still equal or faster overall. This just means the car worked better and had more overall speed. At the end of the stint he then used this higher level of management in his advantage.

To me this is just setup related and should not be attributed to Lewis to the level you make it seem. If you have a fast car you can manage more without losing time to others. You always see the faster cars be able to have the longest stints.

mstar
mstar
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 12:32 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Cassius wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:35 pm
mstar wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:22 pm
Michael wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:34 pm
A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.
Agree. I watched lewis for years, what makes him SO deadly in race pace is he has a great "feel" where the tyre/grip is and adapts accordingly each time he comes to the same corner next lap. He puts it in his brain and adjusts his driving next time to be faster in that corner. This works wonders when he has a car under him. You can see this a lot in longggg sweeping corners (less obvious in slower corners -but still there). Barcelona this season was a classic example how he adjusted his style through corners / throttle and braking and positioning for the corners. He never took the same corner the same lap after lap unless he knows its still the best way and cannot go quicker.

This is where i see Georges weakness which i won't go into but lewis shows this a lot vs george but people don't see it that much due to a dog of a car which is just not complaint to how lewis wants to "adapt" to to go faster and faster each time in a race. A example of this was the last 10 laps when lewis just left george for dust and pulled like 6 seconds in 10 laps.
In Silverstone Lewis was losing 0.2s to Leclerc in corners 1 and 9 due to more management (according to Bono on the radio). So also Lewis is losing time when managing the tyres. However, he was still equal or faster overall. This just means the car worked better and had more overall speed. At the end of the stint he then used this higher level of management in his advantage.

To me this is just setup related and should not be attributed to Lewis to the level you make it seem. If you have a fast car you can manage more without losing time to others. You always see the faster cars be able to have the longest stints.
I guess you didn;t understand what we was talking about. Its not this GP its something really interesting Lewis (and Max) do during the GP.

SuperCNJ
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Cassius wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:35 pm
mstar wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:22 pm
Michael wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:34 pm
A lot of drivers save tyres by lifting in faster corners, lift and coast (saves under braking), etc. etc., accelerate more gently or short shift in traction zones, etc. etc. Most of them limit the action to particular corners or zones on the track, e.g. turn 3 at Barcelona, for example - the biggest 'problem' areas.

But just watch Hamilton closely during a race - he varies his lines way more than almost any other driver (very noticeable when following another car - many drivers don't do even that I've noticed!).

What Hamilton does is really interesting. If you watch closely you will see he often does a different thing each lap or each type of corner. So he can drive the same series of corners 3 laps in a row optimised to save the tyre on a different corner each lap. Or he will change which corners he is leaving margin for tyres on from lap to lap. He's continually varying lines, braking points, turn in points, acceleration points lap to lap and so constantly rotating which tyre he is saving. That also extends to giving one tyre an easy time in one corner but then making up the time by pushing hard in a corner that uses the opposite, one for example.

The result is - through this constant rotation of what tyre he is saving and the way in which he's saving it - that he shares out the load (in terms of the 'tire cost' of each bit of lap time) across all the tyres.
Agree. I watched lewis for years, what makes him SO deadly in race pace is he has a great "feel" where the tyre/grip is and adapts accordingly each time he comes to the same corner next lap. He puts it in his brain and adjusts his driving next time to be faster in that corner. This works wonders when he has a car under him. You can see this a lot in longggg sweeping corners (less obvious in slower corners -but still there). Barcelona this season was a classic example how he adjusted his style through corners / throttle and braking and positioning for the corners. He never took the same corner the same lap after lap unless he knows its still the best way and cannot go quicker.

This is where i see Georges weakness which i won't go into but lewis shows this a lot vs george but people don't see it that much due to a dog of a car which is just not complaint to how lewis wants to "adapt" to to go faster and faster each time in a race. A example of this was the last 10 laps when lewis just left george for dust and pulled like 6 seconds in 10 laps.
In Silverstone Lewis was losing 0.2s to Leclerc in corners 1 and 9 due to more management (according to Bono on the radio). So also Lewis is losing time when managing the tyres. However, he was still equal or faster overall. This just means the car worked better and had more overall speed. At the end of the stint he then used this higher level of management in his advantage.

To me this is just setup related and should not be attributed to Lewis to the level you make it seem. If you have a fast car you can manage more without losing time to others. You always see the faster cars be able to have the longest stints.
But didn't Leclerc have a damaged car?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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erudite450 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:25 pm
wogx wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:23 pm
mstar wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:37 am
Does anyone think french GP with the new FIA TD, redbull be pegged back a little? i doubt it but i am no expert
Why do you ask about it here, in Mercedes Team thread? There is a RB thread
Not completely out of place. Redbull are direct competitors to Mercedes.
So ask it in the Red Bull thread as it's more aimed at them.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mercedes will bring a suspension upgrades that will be part of a development program/package
to permanently eliminate the bouncing problem.
The development programme will come with further upgrades at Paul Richard.

https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-allatta ... bull-ring/

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mstar wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:37 am
Does anyone think french GP with the new FIA TD, redbull be pegged back a little? i doubt it but i am no expert
Will be hard to determine. Paul Ricard is supersmooth, so Mercedes will be competitive there anyway.