What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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wesley123
wesley123
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Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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silver wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:41 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:23 am
silver wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:05 am
Officials thought otherwise.
The only crash was when Max was involved. Doesn't matter about officials - the fact is Lewis has been through Copse with other drivers without crashing. Only one turned in.
That's your personal opinion, not a fact and I am satisfied with official take on the mater.
How many crashes has Lewis had with others through Copse?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Some things never change :lol:


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Wouter
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:29 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:08 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:47 am
But that's all in the past now so let's move on. 8)
.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)

Monday 4 July 2022

"Charles did a great job," Hamilton told Sky Sports F1. "What a great battle.

"[He's] a very sensible driver, clearly a lot different to what I experienced last year.

"Around Copse, for example, two of us went through there no problem. But what a battle.

"We had to have the tyre deficit in order to get past him but a really, really amazing weekend."
.
He was correct, it was a different experience from last year. It also referenced Horner's "no one can overtake through Copse".
.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/115910/h ... u-off.html
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Hamilton took different approach with Leclerc: 'Didn't want to run you off'

Did Hamilton learn from Silverstone 2021 after all?

The video shows a clip of Hamilton and Leclerc talking during the Austrian Grand Prix weekend.
In it, they revisit the previous week's battle and the Briton makes a striking statement:
“I was like, ‘f*** man, I don’t want to clip you and send you off,'”, he tells the Monegasque.
:wtf:
.
The Power of Honda!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:39 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:29 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:08 pm

.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)


.
He was correct, it was a different experience from last year. It also referenced Horner's "no one can overtake through Copse".
.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/115910/h ... u-off.html
.
Hamilton took different approach with Leclerc: 'Didn't want to run you off'

Did Hamilton learn from Silverstone 2021 after all?

The video shows a clip of Hamilton and Leclerc talking during the Austrian Grand Prix weekend.
In it, they revisit the previous week's battle and the Briton makes a striking statement:
“I was like, ‘f*** man, I don’t want to clip you and send you off,'”, he tells the Monegasque.
:wtf:
.
Leclerc hasn't got a reputation for being aggressive in marginal situations.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

Post

Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:39 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:29 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:08 pm

.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)


.
He was correct, it was a different experience from last year. It also referenced Horner's "no one can overtake through Copse".
.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/115910/h ... u-off.html
.
Hamilton took different approach with Leclerc: 'Didn't want to run you off'

Did Hamilton learn from Silverstone 2021 after all?

The video shows a clip of Hamilton and Leclerc talking during the Austrian Grand Prix weekend.
In it, they revisit the previous week's battle and the Briton makes a striking statement:
“I was like, ‘f*** man, I don’t want to clip you and send you off,'”, he tells the Monegasque.
:wtf:
.
Leclerc hasn't got a reputation for being aggressive in marginal situations. Also, Hamilton says he didn't want to clip Leclerc and that is then being used to suggest that he had wanted to clip Max. That is a classic non sequitur.

But last year was an example of "Live by the sword, die by the sword".

And why is this in the Austrian GP thread?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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In 2021 Ham gave Lec much more space than Ver by going to the inside of the corner instead of staying in the middle:

In 2022 again Ham gave Lec much more space by going to the inside of the corner. Look at how close Lec moves to the inside while Ham is still there, aggressive move by Lec:
Last edited by Alexf1 on Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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AeroDynamic
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Location: La règle du jeu

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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a year later and people are still fixating on the apex and conveniently neglecting the fact that the corner is taken before you get to the apex, not at the apex.

look at 0:09 in the first video in 2021. Are they the same? no they are very different. In the braking zone, Lewis has little to no overlap with Leclerc and has no business dictating any space. In the Max incident, he has so much overlap, they are practically side by side and at minimum he has equal claim to the line and the corner he wants to take (run out wide)

The track limit is the white line, not the outer kerb. If someone is forcing you beyond the white line (the kerb) they are pushing you beyond the track limit and out of it.

The reason people assert that 'lewis gave leclerc more space' is as much because Max is moving over into a tight line when he has another car literally along side him, wanting that car to disappear. But as Alonso said at the time, you can't disappear. These guys didn't even get through the corner to touch the apex before the incident occurs.

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:00 pm
a year later and people are still fixating on the apex and conveniently neglecting the fact that the corner is taken before you get to the apex, not at the apex.

look at 0:09 in the first video in 2021. Are they the same? no they are very different. In the braking zone, Lewis has little to no overlap with Leclerc and has no business dictating any space. In the Max incident, he has so much overlap, they are practically side by side and at minimum he has equal claim to the line and the corner he wants to take (run out wide)

The track limit is the white line, not the outer kerb. If someone is forcing you beyond the white line (the kerb) they are pushing you beyond the track limit and out of it.

The reason people assert that 'lewis gave leclerc more space' is as much because Max is moving over into a tight line when he has another car literally along side him, wanting that car to disappear. But as Alonso said at the time, you can't disappear. These guys didn't even get through the corner to touch the apex before the incident occurs.
Fixed that word for you in my post. Doesn't make it any difference though: When taking a right hand corner it's kind of strange you go to the left of the racing line when there's someone already there. This is confirmed by Ham by not doing this when he took this corner side by side with Lec twice

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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Alexf1 wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:11 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:00 pm
a year later and people are still fixating on the apex and conveniently neglecting the fact that the corner is taken before you get to the apex, not at the apex.

look at 0:09 in the first video in 2021. Are they the same? no they are very different. In the braking zone, Lewis has little to no overlap with Leclerc and has no business dictating any space. In the Max incident, he has so much overlap, they are practically side by side and at minimum he has equal claim to the line and the corner he wants to take (run out wide)

The track limit is the white line, not the outer kerb. If someone is forcing you beyond the white line (the kerb) they are pushing you beyond the track limit and out of it.

The reason people assert that 'lewis gave leclerc more space' is as much because Max is moving over into a tight line when he has another car literally along side him, wanting that car to disappear. But as Alonso said at the time, you can't disappear. These guys didn't even get through the corner to touch the apex before the incident occurs.
Fixed that word for you in my post. Doesn't make it any difference though: When taking a right hand corner it's kind of strange you go to the left of the racing line when there's someone already there. This is confirmed by Ham by not doing this when he took this corner side by side with Lec twice
Conveniently forgets that Max had tried to squeeze Lewis towards the inside wall in an attempt to scare him off from trying a move. Charles didn't. Meaning in '21, Lewis was coming in to Copse from a different starting point to that in '22.

Copse, like all corners, effectively starts 200m metre before the apex and what happens in that run up determines what happens in the corner itself. One can't just say "here's an apex view - look how they're different" as evidence without also looking at the entire run up to the corner.
Last edited by Just_a_fan on Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:29 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:11 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:00 pm
a year later and people are still fixating on the apex and conveniently neglecting the fact that the corner is taken before you get to the apex, not at the apex.

look at 0:09 in the first video in 2021. Are they the same? no they are very different. In the braking zone, Lewis has little to no overlap with Leclerc and has no business dictating any space. In the Max incident, he has so much overlap, they are practically side by side and at minimum he has equal claim to the line and the corner he wants to take (run out wide)

The track limit is the white line, not the outer kerb. If someone is forcing you beyond the white line (the kerb) they are pushing you beyond the track limit and out of it.

The reason people assert that 'lewis gave leclerc more space' is as much because Max is moving over into a tight line when he has another car literally along side him, wanting that car to disappear. But as Alonso said at the time, you can't disappear. These guys didn't even get through the corner to touch the apex before the incident occurs.
Fixed that word for you in my post. Doesn't make it any difference though: When taking a right hand corner it's kind of strange you go to the left of the racing line when there's someone already there. This is confirmed by Ham by not doing this when he took this corner side by side with Lec twice
Conveniently forgets that Max had tried to squeeze Lewis towards the inside wall in an attempt to scare him off from trying a move. Charles didn't. Meaning in '21, Lewis was coming in to Copse from a different starting point to that in '22.

Copse, like all corners, effectively starts 200m metre before the apex and what happens in that run up determines what happens in the corner itself. One can't just say "here's a apex view - look how they're different" as evidence without also looking at the entire run up to the corner.
What you describe is called missing your braking point

Dee
Dee
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 am

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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Everyone is missing what Hamilton said directly after the crash

"I was ahead, it was my line"

Then changes is to

"I was alongside"

Mentally, Lewis thought he was ahead and had won the corner. He went in with speed and in his mind, it was Max that had to back out.

He was never ahead and never had the racing line. He misjudged it and thus the crash happened.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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Alexf1 wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:37 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:29 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:11 pm


Fixed that word for you in my post. Doesn't make it any difference though: When taking a right hand corner it's kind of strange you go to the left of the racing line when there's someone already there. This is confirmed by Ham by not doing this when he took this corner side by side with Lec twice
Conveniently forgets that Max had tried to squeeze Lewis towards the inside wall in an attempt to scare him off from trying a move. Charles didn't. Meaning in '21, Lewis was coming in to Copse from a different starting point to that in '22.

Copse, like all corners, effectively starts 200m metre before the apex and what happens in that run up determines what happens in the corner itself. One can't just say "here's a apex view - look how they're different" as evidence without also looking at the entire run up to the corner.
What you describe is called missing your braking point
No, it isn't.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
561
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

Post

Dee wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:00 pm
Everyone is missing what Hamilton said directly after the crash

"I was ahead, it was my line"

Then changes is to

"I was alongside"

Mentally, Lewis thought he was ahead and had won the corner. He went in with speed and in his mind, it was Max that had to back out.

He was never ahead and never had the racing line. He misjudged it and thus the crash happened.
He was ahead on the approach and he was alongside on the entry. He ended up dropping back because he saw Max wasn't going to do anything other than turn in.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:30 pm
Dee wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:00 pm
Everyone is missing what Hamilton said directly after the crash

"I was ahead, it was my line"

Then changes is to

"I was alongside"

Mentally, Lewis thought he was ahead and had won the corner. He went in with speed and in his mind, it was Max that had to back out.

He was never ahead and never had the racing line. He misjudged it and thus the crash happened.
He was ahead on the approach and he was alongside on the entry. He ended up dropping back because he saw Max wasn't going to do anything other than turn in.
Nope. Max even opened up his steering to avoid him. Enough space given, Ham is just a bit clumsy on the inside:

Dee
Dee
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 am

Re: What happens in 2021 stays in 2021

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:30 pm
Dee wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:00 pm
Everyone is missing what Hamilton said directly after the crash

"I was ahead, it was my line"

Then changes is to

"I was alongside"

Mentally, Lewis thought he was ahead and had won the corner. He went in with speed and in his mind, it was Max that had to back out.

He was never ahead and never had the racing line. He misjudged it and thus the crash happened.
He was ahead on the approach and he was alongside on the entry. He ended up dropping back because he saw Max wasn't going to do anything other than turn in.
Absolute and utter lie, on the same level as flat earth territory

Video evidence of Hamilton never being ahead at any point and you want to say this...

He was alongside for a split second because he braked too late to take the corner cleanly

Even Hamilton himself had to backtrack on his ahead comment because he knew he was wrong