Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
If F1 is such a great platform for advertisers, then why are the Brawn cars still mostly devoid of logos and sponsors? And the driver's uniforms and that of team personnel are also lacking? Is this an indication of Mr. Fry's competence or is it a true indication of the worldwide economic reality? You would think that with all the TV time these cars get while running at the front there would be people knocking at their door but it seems not to be the case. Are they asking for too much money? Is the prospect of yet another new year of massive rule changes creating enough uncertainty to dissuade new clients over which cars will be up front next year? Is Brawn getting a little too comfortable with what remains of Honda's cash infusion? Is it possible that the FIA knows that they can damage the teams by creating uncertainty and they are using this to drive them to compromise at the negotiating table? Is Max just that mean? What about Bernie's thoughts on the ripple effects of rules uncertainty?
And I will repeat... Why are the Brawn cars so void of sponsors? The plain white is OK for testing but at the races and on TV it can't be a positive sign for the sport.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas wrote:And I will repeat... Why are the Brawn cars so void of sponsors? The plain white is OK for testing but at the races and on TV it can't be a positive sign for the sport.
Not a good sign, I agree, but the real indication would be the next year. in optimistic view you can imagine that Brawn right now is in good position to negotiate long-term lucrative contracts and it always takes time to get a best deal.
Also, maybe it is good for them to continue with this livery to get an image.
OTOH if you look at the field Brawn's are not alone - BMW or Toyota don't have too much stickers too.
I know it's not on the car itself, but Rubens was wearing "Duracell" battery on his cap during this race. I also from Brawn on the BBC that the value of Brawn GP is increasing all the time, so it may be that the sponsors that are wanting to get on the car are simply out-priced, also that the negotiations are taking time.
xpensive wrote:A little bit of everything is my guess, fat sponsorship is difficult to come by these days, just look at Williams advertising Hungarian energy-drinks.
But having said that, I agree it is still odd that the comfortaby WDC/WCC leading team is still so void of logos?
Also GreenFlag a breakdown recovery service that is probably, the third most well known next to The AA and The RAC.
It is quite worrying, the state of sponsorship in F1 though. I'd rather see more stickers on the cars.
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
Richard Branson never spent a dime in his life without considering some kind of pay-back, one way or the other.
250 kUSD per race would take the team nowhere in 2010, no matter how small a budget-cap MrM dreams up.
What puzzles me, is if a Terminator-logo is the best provisory sponsorship they can find?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive wrote:Richard Branson never spent a dime in his life without considering some kind of pay-back, one way or the other.
250 kUSD per race would take the team nowhere in 2010, no matter how small a budget-cap MrM dreams up.
What puzzles me, is if a Terminator-logo is the best provisory sponsorship they can find?
Think of Terminator as "Sony Pictures" and it becomes a bigger sponsorship. Didn't Toyota have something similar last year with a Batman logo instead?
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
gcdugas wrote:If F1 is such a great platform for advertisers, then why are the Brawn cars still mostly devoid of logos and sponsors? And the driver's uniforms and that of team personnel are also lacking? Is this an indication of Mr. Fry's competence or is it a true indication of the worldwide economic reality? You would think that with all the TV time these cars get while running at the front there would be people knocking at their door but it seems not to be the case. Are they asking for too much money? Is the prospect of yet another new year of massive rule changes creating enough uncertainty to dissuade new clients over which cars will be up front next year? Is Brawn getting a little too comfortable with what remains of Honda's cash infusion? Is it possible that the FIA knows that they can damage the teams by creating uncertainty and they are using this to drive them to compromise at the negotiating table? Is Max just that mean? What about Bernie's thoughts on the ripple effects of rules uncertainty?
And I will repeat... Why are the Brawn cars so void of sponsors? The plain white is OK for testing but at the races and on TV it can't be a positive sign for the sport.
For what it's worth: it took Compaq several months to finalize the Williams sponsorship deal. Lots and LOTS of levels of sign-off and due diligence. Small deals and one-offs like Terminator can be done in weeks, but big time corporate $ can take months -- or someone with a LOT of power -- like Branson, Bill Gates, a sheikh, etc.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
Does anyone think, maybe brawn doesn't need more help? The price tag for sponsorship goes up every race the brawn wins. Honda is out it is no longer associated with Brawn BTW.
Yes, I think they need a hell of a lot of help. And probably all the people currently financing the whole shooting match think they need a lot of help, and probably everyone who still has a job there thinks they need a lot of help!
I'm not certain of anything in F1 these days, but I'm as certain as I can be that the whole of Brawn GP is currently being run off the back of a handful of people, and my best guess is the people are: Wealthy and supportive friends and associates that Ross Brawn and Nick Fry have collected over the years (these guys are not good enough friends to simply write £10mill cheques for their buddies to play F1 and never see them again though!), Ross and Nicks own personal fortunes, such as they are (more to reassure investors than anything) and a few outside investors who enjoy the odd big risk, and are expecting either big returns, or possibly bust.
Also the goodwill/desperation of employees and suppliers may carry them a few races further than cold hard cash alone. I don't think they have any income to speak of, where would it come from? It has been made clear they are not going to receive Honda's participation money from last year, I very much doubt they will be receiving Honda's help over and above slightly beneficial terms on taking over the assets of the operation. they are a long way from receiving anything official this year...
Is anyone working at their suppliers? are they hitting their payment deadlines at the moment?
As is the main point of this topic , they have a plain car. In short they are adrift and being drawn towards a rather unpleasant sounding creek, and right now are rapidly increasing the urgency of their search for a method of propulsion.
They have no manufacturer support, and they are not owned by someone who has income from non F1 sources i.e. Red Bull. They were given the shitty stick from Honda, who were running a somewhat un-conventional and some might say, un-workable sponsorship program up until their withdrawal, they don't even have a warm bed to jump into let alone the major multi year contracts many of the other teams are surviving on.
I seriously think we will soon be seeing one of two types of announcement, the one where they unveil a major new sponsor, or the one where they state how many more races they can afford to enter this year, and I have a horrible feeling which one is more likely.
Please note, I don't work there, and I don't know any of this for sure. When making such dire predictions about something people have worked so hard on and invested so much in I feel a bit bad. I hope I'm wrong and if I'm not I'll be the first to say 'SAVE BrawnGP'
I don't think they were given the shitty stick by Honda, the way I understand things, Honda are paying for them to win this season with a Mercedes engine, not exactly a poke in the eye if you ask me?
They took their chances on the 2009 car around a bold interpretation of the diffuser rules, which paid off in spades.
But in times when neither technical- nor budget-rules are set, I'm afraid that a megabucks sponsorship deal for 2010 is not on the priority list for the big corps, no matter how much you win this year. Perhaps MrE touched a point when he said, or to that effect anyway, that "Brawn" is basically a "no-name" entity marketing-wise?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive wrote:But in times when neither technical- nor budget-rules are set, I'm afraid that a megabucks sponsorship deal for 2010 is not on the priority list for the big corps, no matter how much you win this year. Perhaps MrE touched a point when he said, or to that effect anyway, that "Brawn" is basically a "no-name" entity marketing-wise?
And sadly no longer is Williams a "name" with their last success being 12 long years ago. All the nostalgia is just that. It is even less than Lotus. So I fear for F1 as a sport if Max runs out the manufacturers. They bring the clout and the names to the sport.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
No multi-million £ deal is signed in a few weeks, it takes lawyers and meeting after meeting...and those can only happen when the people in charge are free to hold the meetings.
I'd say Brawn are doing well, they are not flapping and panicing...just working on the deals they have on the table to make the best of them.
