A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers
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Re: A post EV era

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won't EV batteries that don't 'hold their charge' be losing that charge as heat internally ?

do people in Australia want such uncommanded space heating ?

johnny comelately
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Re: A post EV era

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This will provide all your answers
Dont underestimate this story, partic re batteries
Last edited by johnny comelately on Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:58 pm
won't EV batteries that don't 'hold their charge' be losing that charge as heat internally ?

do people in Australia want such uncommanded space heating ?
Lately yes. I live in Queensland and ironically had visitors from the UK and they cooled off here as there was record lows here and record highs in UK!
Last edited by johnny comelately on Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ferry
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Re: A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:58 pm
won't EV batteries that don't 'hold their charge' be losing that charge as heat internally ?
Lithium/EV-batteries don't loose much charge over time. That's not a normal failure mode. But the internal resistance increases. Making them unusable for high power applications but still fine for low power, as Andres123sx has pointed out. Unusable in a 500 kW Tesla or a powerful RC helicopter. Still fine for a house battery or a slow flying RC glider.
Higher internal resistance leads to higher losses yes, but with the square of the current draw. I2R-losses.Not much different than a wire or a semiconductor.

BMW had plans to make house batteries from old i3s, https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/230 ... wer-backup
Haven't seen anything more about it later.

I nice benefit of reusing the EV-batteries is shifting some of the production "cost" of CO2 away from the car. Making the EVs even greener than on first glance.

Jolle
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Re: A post EV era

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https://www.johancruijffarena.nl/nieuws ... -now-live/

It’s already in use for several years.
Most of this is for the big concerts they have at the stadium. Big kick drum sounds need a lot and lot of power. At those levels you pay a hefty premium for peak power consumption, so, the battery storage acts like a huge buffer to keep the bil down.

It used 250 second hand Nissan Leaf battery packs and 340 new ones.

gruntguru
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Re: A post EV era

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Sound systems don't draw much power. The energy storage in that link is mostly doing other stuff.
je suis charlie

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: A post EV era

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gruntguru wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:48 pm
Sound systems don't draw much power.....
most modern speakers are almost 100% inefficient - that's why modern amplifier powers are so high

and audio amplifiers are or were often inefficient
I outlined a home 3-way active crossover system at a keen workmate's insistence - iirc quiescent power was over 1 kW

for efficiency see eg WW2 Western Electric 'beachmaster' PA system - 75 W real-time battle direction over mass gunfire

so I don't believe those who insist that NA F1 noise wasted many hp
(imo it's only a few Watts - that's why we have ears)

Jolle
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Re: A post EV era

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gruntguru wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:48 pm
Sound systems don't draw much power. The energy storage in that link is mostly doing other stuff.
Not on average, but those bass kicks need a lot of peak power.

johnny comelately
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Re: A post EV era

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Very revealing

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:37 pm
Very revealing
What's revealing? That there are still people that, despite everything that we are facing, are working on/are impressed by such moronically overpowered cars for regular customers? Yes, that does say a lot about humanity, unfortunately.

johnny comelately
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Re: A post EV era

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DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am
johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:37 pm
Very revealing
What's revealing? That there are still people that, despite everything that we are facing, are working on/are impressed by such moronically overpowered cars for regular customers? Yes, that does say a lot about humanity, unfortunately.
I will do your homework for you at $780 per hour.
It will take me about half an hour the way I type.
How much do you want to know about what is revealing?

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:32 am
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am
johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:37 pm
Very revealing
What's revealing? That there are still people that, despite everything that we are facing, are working on/are impressed by such moronically overpowered cars for regular customers? Yes, that does say a lot about humanity, unfortunately.
I will do your homework for you at $780 per hour.
It will take me about half an hour the way I type.
How much do you want to know about what is revealing?
Nah, if I want to lose money at that rate I'll invest in bitcoin.

Nico says it well close to the end. It's madness. But he doesn't say it for the right reason. Noone needs this. Making cars go faster and faster has been a fun challenge while it lasted but it doesn't fit the current times. What we need now is restraint and efficiency - a car that exactly fits the needs of regular usage at minimum input (and, to add, yes that applies to electric too. That something is electric does not make it sustainable by default - there is a limited amount of electricity available, we should not waste it on excesses.)
Racing is still fun, there's a reason I follow F1. But it's mainly entertainment and should confine to that narrow niche.

Just_a_fan
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Re: A post EV era

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DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:39 am

Racing is still fun, there's a reason I follow F1. But it's mainly entertainment and should confine to that narrow niche.
The reasons against hypercars, even electric ones, apply to F1 too.

I could buy an electric hypercar and drive it like an old man and it would be no worse than a boring EV. F1 is entirely indefensible.

Be careful espousing the "I see no need for EV hyper cars" because the same argument can be used about F1.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:07 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:39 am

Racing is still fun, there's a reason I follow F1. But it's mainly entertainment and should confine to that narrow niche.
The reasons against hypercars, even electric ones, apply to F1 too.

I could buy an electric hypercar and drive it like an old man and it would be no worse than a boring EV. F1 is entirely indefensible.

Be careful espousing the "I see no need for EV hyper cars" because the same argument can be used about F1.
If that happens, that happens.
For me, road driving and circuit driving are different worlds. I have no problem with a limited number of professional athletes driving excessively powerful cars for the entertainment of many (I do think they are overcompensated at that, but that's another matter). I do also not have a problem with people renting a more modestly overpowered car on a circuit for personal entertainment every now and then. The emissions of this whole affair pale in comparison to the collective emissions of casual road traffic, and are defensible, in my opinion, under the pretense that people need some entertainment every now and then. I do think that the price of environmental impact should be included in the price of the equipment, but no issue with it being used.

Commodity car use, on the other hand, should focus on efficiency and fit for use if we want to have some chance of addressing environmental challenges - not on achieving ridiculous speeds or acceleration rates. And sure, some cars will be a bit over-designed always; as long as the environmental impact is in the price of the car/fuel, fine. But hypercars are ridiculous in a whole different dimension and help cementing the mindset that more extreme is better - leading to 'regular' cars being overdesigned as well; after all, powerful cars bring status, so who wants a boring 'fit for purpose' one? We need to counter the mindset that more powerful cars are better cars, and for that, the mindset in design needs to shift away from a race for the fastest. If we can separate regular use and entertainment, we may be able to keep fast cars around for entertainment in limited settings. If we cannot do that, well, then F1 indeed will need to go, and sacrificing F1 is the desired option over sacrificing habitability of the planet for me.

gruntguru
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Re: A post EV era

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DChemTech wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:19 pm
. . . . I do think that the price of environmental impact should be included in the price of the equipment, but no issue with it being used. . .
Agree with this bit. Should also apply to hypercars - no need to regulate beyond this. If you can afford to - pay whatever it costs to reverse the damage done by your indulgence then go ahead and do it.
je suis charlie