Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Mchamilton
Mchamilton
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:51 pm
Mchamilton wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:03 pm


yeah, their setup is lower DF. Williams had a great S1 with even higher top speed today, 10kph above Ferrari. Being in lower DF today allowed teams to heat up tires properly so they were fast right away.
Merc were never in a low DF config this weekend, they had their OG barn door rear wing on and a bigger top flap on the front wing.
Everyone had a barn door wing. RUS was churning through tires.
There's no direct correlation between between downforce level and tyre wear is there so I don't see what your point is?

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Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Mchamilton wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:48 pm
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:51 pm
Mchamilton wrote: Merc were never in a low DF config this weekend, they had their OG barn door rear wing on and a bigger top flap on the front wing.
Everyone had a barn door wing. RUS was churning through tires.
There's no direct correlation between between downforce level and tyre wear is there so I don't see what your point is?
That is a shocking thing to read after years of interviews that talk of how low downforce levels correlate specifically to tyre degradation due to sliding... 😒

mantikos
mantikos
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:35 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Mchamilton wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:48 pm
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:51 pm
Mchamilton wrote: Merc were never in a low DF config this weekend, they had their OG barn door rear wing on and a bigger top flap on the front wing.
Everyone had a barn door wing. RUS was churning through tires.
There's no direct correlation between between downforce level and tyre wear is there so I don't see what your point is?
There absolutely is

PhillipM
PhillipM
318
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mercedes W13

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Mchamilton wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:48 pm

There's no direct correlation between between downforce level and tyre wear is there so I don't see what your point is?
There absolutely is.

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ringo
203
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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Yes low df will lead to relatively more graining.
But GR was not churning through tyres. He was wearing and not graining because of how much he had to push. I believe ferrari had more tyre wear and graining issues ironically.
Neither was Hamilton having much issue.
Not even the debrief mentioned a low df setup. What was said was that Lewis was hoping for rain which gives an idea of the direction they went.
For Sure!!

georgekyr
georgekyr
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:46 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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SuperCNJ wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:31 pm
InsaneX_Badger wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:02 am
Henri wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:40 am

I think at spa merc will be the fastest..
Honestly I don't believe it. It has been a fair amount of time since this TD has been out. If the top two were really doing this, they would have found a solution by now if it was that important to their car performance.
Well there's no need to implement a solution when the new rules have not kicked in. Reap the benefits of what you have already, until you're not allowed to. That way it gives them more time to finalise and develop the new solution.
It makes no sense to lose something when you do not have to. I bet there were tests in free practise, but the full removal/update of the relevant parts will come at Spa.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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ringo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:39 am
What was said was that Lewis was hoping for rain which gives an idea of the direction they went.
There's no way he went "wet set up" in any way. You don't set fastest lap in a dry race (even if there is some light drizzle at the end) on a wet set up.

What rain would do is effectively reduce any power deficit that Mercedes might be suffering. Also Hamilton has great self belief about his skill in the wet.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

The_Engineer
The_Engineer
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:59 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:48 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:39 am
What was said was that Lewis was hoping for rain which gives an idea of the direction they went.
There's no way he went "wet set up" in any way. You don't set fastest lap in a dry race (even if there is some light drizzle at the end) on a wet set up.

What rain would do is effectively reduce any power deficit that Mercedes might be suffering. Also Hamilton has great self belief about his skill in the wet.

Lewis wanted rain at the end because he was on a relatively fresh set of softs vs Max on a set of worn Mediums. The soft tyre would give a lot more grip in damp conditions in the final laps of the race.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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The_Engineer wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:53 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:48 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:39 am
What was said was that Lewis was hoping for rain which gives an idea of the direction they went.
There's no way he went "wet set up" in any way. You don't set fastest lap in a dry race (even if there is some light drizzle at the end) on a wet set up.

What rain would do is effectively reduce any power deficit that Mercedes might be suffering. Also Hamilton has great self belief about his skill in the wet.

Lewis wanted rain at the end because he was on a relatively fresh set of softs vs Max on a set of worn Mediums. The soft tyre would give a lot more grip in damp conditions in the final laps of the race.
Yes, indeed so. But I think he was hoping it would be wet for the entire race.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Sidiamal
Sidiamal
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:43 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:20 am
The_Engineer wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:53 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:48 am

There's no way he went "wet set up" in any way. You don't set fastest lap in a dry race (even if there is some light drizzle at the end) on a wet set up.

What rain would do is effectively reduce any power deficit that Mercedes might be suffering. Also Hamilton has great self belief about his skill in the wet.

Lewis wanted rain at the end because he was on a relatively fresh set of softs vs Max on a set of worn Mediums. The soft tyre would give a lot more grip in damp conditions in the final laps of the race.
Yes, indeed so. But I think he was hoping it would be wet for the entire race.
On the basis of?

EDIT: Every indication from the team is that they hoped for rain because it would allow them a free pit stop to stay ahead of Verstappen & co around lap 50 or so, or later so that the softs' advantage would be heightened, not because they had a wet setup.

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ringo
203
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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I didnt say he was on a wet setup.
I implied that the car was setup for the tyres to last. Usually teams do this so they can wait out for rain without taking a pitstop.
I dont think they went low downforce and high deg.
For Sure!!

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:20 am
The_Engineer wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:53 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:48 am

There's no way he went "wet set up" in any way. You don't set fastest lap in a dry race (even if there is some light drizzle at the end) on a wet set up.

What rain would do is effectively reduce any power deficit that Mercedes might be suffering. Also Hamilton has great self belief about his skill in the wet.

Lewis wanted rain at the end because he was on a relatively fresh set of softs vs Max on a set of worn Mediums. The soft tyre would give a lot more grip in damp conditions in the final laps of the race.
Yes, indeed so. But I think he was hoping it would be wet for the entire race.
The Mercedes was disastrous on the wet tires in FP3.

VacuousFlamboyant
VacuousFlamboyant
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:45 am

Re: Mercedes W13

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Shovlin revealed he has big hopes for the return of the season. A new set of upgrades is due, as they are "trying to bring back some performance to Spa".

One aspect that I think is overlooked when discussing the car philosophy is rear tyre temperature. Everybody keeps talking about drag, but seeing how everything has unfold till Hungary, I'm almost certain one of the key areas hindering W13's true potential is tyre temperature. Tyre managment on its own is a big shunk of lap time. Despite the low temperatures, Hungary is a track that stresses the tyres the most. That combination might have helped Lewis keep a more aggressive line in the last stint.

Interviewed by Kovalainen, Hamilton has let slip that Mercedes turned engine modes :?: down to prevent porpoising on top of everything else: "We've had to depower it to stop it from bouncing, but we had really good reliability" [...] "And every week I'm hoping that they find something that bring us that little bit of downforce without bouncing".

With more power and downforce recovered, the car would be in a much better place regarding tyre temperature.



OO7
OO7
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

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He wasn't talking about the PU being depowered, but the floor.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mercedes W13

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Yep, made the floor less peaky but more consistent.