Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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mendis
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Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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In my opinion, FIA should implement a couple of things to get out of the farce of SC/VSC.

First one, if a car is stranded in the last 10 laps of a race, it should be an immediate RED FLAG. No Ifs and Buts, but give a rolling start, not a standing one. Don't overtly penalize the leader of the race and be fair. A standing start can easily take away all the hard work the leader would have done. With fresh set of tyres on all cars, drivers should do the hard work to earn places and not get it by standing start lottery.

Second, pitting under SC and VSC should have a 7 second stationery time before the tyres are changed. Currently, a car with 7 seconds margin can pit under VSC and come out ahead. This would ensure the car that pitted just before the SC/VSC isn't overtly penalized.

DChemTech
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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We had this topic last week too, right?

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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Nothing needs to change.

People just need to stop twisting.

The FIA press release sums it up perfectly. (cant find it but Sky read it out on TV)
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Big Tea
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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Possibly, they need a new way is 'safeing' dumped cars.
In Motorcycle racing, and 'stocks' (UK) they put hay bales there. Is there some movable barrier they could use?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

BlueCheetah66
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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mendis wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:48 pm
In my opinion, FIA should implement a couple of things to get out of the farce of SC/VSC.

First one, if a car is stranded in the last 10 laps of a race, it should be an immediate RED FLAG. No Ifs and Buts, but give a rolling start, not a standing one. Don't overtly penalize the leader of the race and be fair. A standing start can easily take away all the hard work the leader would have done. With fresh set of tyres on all cars, drivers should do the hard work to earn places and not get it by standing start lottery.

Second, pitting under SC and VSC should have a 7 second stationery time before the tyres are changed. Currently, a car with 7 seconds margin can pit under VSC and come out ahead. This would ensure the car that pitted just before the SC/VSC isn't overtly penalized.
I disagree with the part about immediately red flagging the race. The red flag is a safety tool and shouldn't be abused for the purpose of the 'show'. I agree that restarts for Red Flags should be rolling starts. The second point I agree with, but I think that they should lower the speed limit in the pit lane in SC and VSC. That achieves the same aim without seeming like a gimmick.

But I will say, If that were to be implemented, everyone would hate it in certain instances. It's like VAR in football, if anyone else heere watches it. Most agree that it is a negative in football, but if they were to remove it, everyone would hate it because you've got used to it. The same situation would be true in F1. You might be happy when your favourite driver benefits from it but then will hate that they then cant benefit in a different situation.

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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In a statement issued after the race, an FIA spokesperson said: “While every effort was made to recover Car #3 [Ricciardo] quickly and resume racing, the situation developed and marshals were unable to put the car into neutral and push it into the escape road.
As the safety of the recovery operation is our only priority, and the incident was not significant enough to require a red flag, the race ended under Safety Car following the procedures agreed between the FIA and all competitors. The timing of the Safety Car period within a race has no bearing on this procedure.”


Im not sure what fans/teams really expect....

Fans and the teams want to finish the race under a green flag....fair enough, but then it seems the FIA cant win. They stick a SC out to protect the marshalls and drivers from lifting machinery, and then get twisted at when it takes longer to unlap cars and sort the order out,
What is key, is the safety of drivers and personnel on track recovering a car, rather than cars finishing under a green flag or cars unlapping themselves flying past a Manitou recovering a car.

People twisted at the FIA for finishing AD with a green flag lap, then comes to the EXACT same scenario, and you have the fans and teams shouting at the FIA to finish under a green flag racing lap.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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One thing I think would fix it, and keep away from the red flag/restart/ result called early/last lap shootout, would be to add the laps behind the SC onto the end of the race. This is done in the BTCC (British Touring Car Championship) up to a maximum of 5 laps. Obviously cars would need to be fuelled for the extra 5 laps, but your talking marginal amounts of fuel, and it would always ensure you finish the race under green flag without controversy.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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jjn9128
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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F1 is a motorsport not the American razmataz showbiz event that certain people seem to want. Sometimes races end under SC if there's no time to safely clear a stricken car. --- happens.
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johnny comelately
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:24 pm
One thing I think would fix it, and keep away from the red flag/restart/ result called early/last lap shootout, would be to add the laps behind the SC onto the end of the race. This is done in the BTCC (British Touring Car Championship) up to a maximum of 5 laps. Obviously cars would need to be fuelled for the extra 5 laps, but your talking marginal amounts of fuel, and it would always ensure you finish the race under green flag without controversy.
A reasonable solution
The restart is always problematic in preserving the gaps.

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Zynerji
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:51 pm
F1 is a motorsport not the American razmataz showbiz event that certain people seem to want. Sometimes races end under SC if there's no time to safely clear a stricken car. --- happens.
That would be fine if the red flag wasn't available.

Tractor on track, stop the f*n race.

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vorticism
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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How about better ensuring cars are still moveable by personnel once off track. f.e. direct operation of the clutch ; manual override. Ricciardo's car couldn't be pushed by personnel; if the clutch could have been opened they'd have been able to push it away without waiting on a truck to lift it. Shorter safety car period. This could be achieved by hydraulics or mechanical linkage. An emergency clutch pedal/lever.

Or, here's one for the lottery enthusiasts, when a car is marooned near the track, by lottery one car is randomly picked from the field to become the tow car. The driver will need to pull alongside the stricken car; then a personnel will attach a lanyard. "Getting a tow" takes on a whole new meaning. Since the tow car is randomly chosen this will incentivize against DNFs in general.

Dr. Acula
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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Zynerji wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:26 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:51 pm
F1 is a motorsport not the American razmataz showbiz event that certain people seem to want. Sometimes races end under SC if there's no time to safely clear a stricken car. --- happens.
That would be fine if the red flag wasn't available.

Tractor on track, stop the f*n race.
There are clear rules when the red flag is deemed appropiate. The red flag is meant for situations when it would be dangerous to continue staying on track. For instance if there's debris at a place over the entire track width. We didn't had that yesterday so there was no need for a red flag.
Honestly, what some people now claim is stopping the race just for entertainment purposes. Well if we go that route why not introduce a bunch of new flags? Like the "Blue shell flag"? If shown to the leading driver he has to drive through the pit lane once. This flag can be triggerd by democratic vote of the other teams. Wouldn't that be great?... :roll:

Just_a_fan
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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vorticism wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:00 am
How about better ensuring cars are still moveable by personnel once off track. f.e. direct operation of the clutch ; manual override. Ricciardo's car couldn't be pushed by personnel; if the clutch could have been opened they'd have been able to push it away without waiting on a truck to lift it. Shorter safety car period. This could be achieved by hydraulics or mechanical linkage. An emergency clutch pedal/lever.
They already have a "put it in neutral" button on the cars on top of the tub in front of the cockpit. However, if the problem that stops the car is in the gearbox, even in neutral it might be possible to roll it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

basti313
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:50 am
vorticism wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:00 am
How about better ensuring cars are still moveable by personnel once off track. f.e. direct operation of the clutch ; manual override. Ricciardo's car couldn't be pushed by personnel; if the clutch could have been opened they'd have been able to push it away without waiting on a truck to lift it. Shorter safety car period. This could be achieved by hydraulics or mechanical linkage. An emergency clutch pedal/lever.
They already have a "put it in neutral" button on the cars on top of the tub in front of the cockpit. However, if the problem that stops the car is in the gearbox, even in neutral it might be possible to roll it.
The issue is not the car or the rules, it is the drivers. We have seen it last weekend with Tsunoda, this weekend with Vettel and also with Riccardo. The drivers neither know where they can park the car nor do they give a $hit what happens to the race.
There was no reason for Tsunoda to not go into a safe location or even the pits, there was no reason for Vettel or Riccardo to jump out of the car so that the marshals have to wait and then figure out how to push the car...the drivers can simply stay in the car and pull the clutch.

Easy solution: Once they stop on track and cause an avoidable SC (not counting Sainz in Austria for example), they go back 3 places next race.
chrisc90 wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:08 pm
What is key, is the safety of drivers and personnel on track recovering a car, rather than cars finishing under a green flag or cars unlapping themselves flying past a Manitou recovering a car.

People twisted at the FIA for finishing AD with a green flag lap, then comes to the EXACT same scenario, and you have the fans and teams shouting at the FIA to finish under a green flag racing lap.
Well, that was clear, wasn`t it?
If they need 5 laps to deploy and remove a SC as a minimum by the rules, it will last for 5 laps minimum.

I am surprised, that this is not communicated in this way, a SC is 5 laps, not less.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Safety Car/Virtual Safety Car - Pit Stops Suggestions

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:47 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:50 am
vorticism wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:00 am
How about better ensuring cars are still moveable by personnel once off track. f.e. direct operation of the clutch ; manual override. Ricciardo's car couldn't be pushed by personnel; if the clutch could have been opened they'd have been able to push it away without waiting on a truck to lift it. Shorter safety car period. This could be achieved by hydraulics or mechanical linkage. An emergency clutch pedal/lever.
They already have a "put it in neutral" button on the cars on top of the tub in front of the cockpit. However, if the problem that stops the car is in the gearbox, even in neutral it might be possible to roll it.
The issue is not the car or the rules, it is the drivers. We have seen it last weekend with Tsunoda, this weekend with Vettel and also with Riccardo. The drivers neither know where they can park the car nor do they give a $hit what happens to the race.
There was no reason for Tsunoda to not go into a safe location or even the pits, there was no reason for Vettel or Riccardo to jump out of the car so that the marshals have to wait and then figure out how to push the car...the drivers can simply stay in the car and pull the clutch.
There's a button with a big "N" next to it on the tub. They're trained to press it. If that doesn't work, the driver being in the car probably wouldn't make a difference anyway - the clutch paddle isn't mechanically connected to the clutch - it's a potentiometer.

The drivers don't stay in the car because it's safer to get out and behind the barrier - something that's likely drilled in to them from day one in racing.

As to not knowing where to park, if the team say "stop the car, stop the car!" they mean "NOW!". As it happens, Ricciardo parked in a relatively safe place and I don't really see why they couldn't just have waved yellows between the two Lesmo corners. No one overtakes there anyway and he was on the inside which is reasonably safe. Leaving the car there and letting the race finish normally wouldn't have been a problem, it seems to me.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"