Another useage of flywheel based k.e.r.s

[f1plank]

It has occured to me that the flywheel based kers devices , could, if mechanism applied movements to the wheels spindle, use the gyroscopic forces to enhance the cars roll and pitch performance over bumps ect.
It would be similar to active ride but using an undetectable force, and some clever interpritation would allow it all the time as it is not using stored energy to apply power to the engine.
Thoughts anyone ?

[J-Raid]

Hi had a chat with a former RenaultF1 engineer, who worked on flywheel kers project in the team, and told that gyroscopic effect of the device was only an issue while riding over kerbs&bumps. Otherwise it wasn't important really.

However while riding over kerb&bumps, simulations showed (no track test was carried) that it wasn't any good.

Though, i guess it could be tuned or designed in a way its effect would be beneficial, but would be very complex giving all the different yaw and picth (and roll too) sitautions a F1 suffers...

[Conceptual]

Amazing said Renault engineer so quickly forgets the banned Tuned Mass Damper.

This has been mentioned in a few other threads, but has never gotten much response, so I hope that you get some answers.

[Ciro Pabón]

Conceptual is right, there were some ideas on "gyroscopic effect" of KERS: Regenerative systems (KERS).



I think that the energy you need to rotate the car is surprisingly low. You only need a few hundred joules to rotate a 600 kg body.

So, you could use the energy in KERS to "yaw" or "pitch" the body, in principle.

However, all cars already have rotating thingies.

For example, the engine has a crankshaft, heavier than a KERS disk, rotating at almost 20.000 rpm.

Does it produce force enought to "yaw" a car? Sure it does. When you accelerate a powerful engine, all cars rotate a bit, but, as J-Raid explains, it seems hard to control the car using that force.

This is a good summary of KERS effects on car behaviour, from another "simulation group".

http://www.icatconf.org/sunum/Sunumlar% ... Kovacs.ppt

It says this:

[xpensive]

Unless we have a case of misunderstanding here, speeding up a flywheel does not generate anything other than the usual counter-torque caused by accelleration, but that has nothing with gyroscopics to do, right?

But said counter-torque can never be more than 60 kW KERS can generate at the fly-wheel speed, like 28 Nm at 20k Rpm.
I doubt if you can turn the car with that?

A gyro however, counter-acts any external accelleration, as applied around any of the two axis not being the gyro-axis'.

In other words, a vertically rotating gyro, such as the fly-wheel suggested by Williams, should counter "dive" and "roll", but would not effect turning.

[Jersey Tom]

Don't think this is a good idea. Many reasons.

Cliffntoes:

1) I see no real performance benefit
2) You have to power this thing somehow. With a lot of juice. Gotta come from somewhere, ie your engine, ie it isn't goin to the wheels anymore.