2022 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 11 - 13

[cplchanb]

https://i.redd.it/j1ubtr3rmrz91.jpg

VER was alongside, HAM left no space.

youre shaping the narrative with a single frame. you could see max divebombed into the corner.

[DGP123]

So basically you can go into any corner, at whatever overspeed, and because your axle is just there, your at no fault. You can’t judge this by still images. It’s about divebombing and showing no intention to slow for the corner, and just hoping someone yields or you just bounce off them, to help you make the corner. Madness

[Gooch]

Yep:

As per the rulebook.

For overtaking on the inside of a corner
In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.

Two big caveats there which the stewards implied as the reason for the penalty and the points.

So like Silverstone then?

I will never understand this argument. Hamilton got an even more severe penalty for Silverstone, it just got erased by the red flag and the FIA's awful procedure.

[cplchanb]

https://i.redd.it/j1ubtr3rmrz91.jpg

VER was alongside, HAM left no space.

Going too fast and at the wrong angle into a corner to get alongside and bouncing off the car on your outside to get your nose around is an arcade video game racing move.

So like Silverstone then?

ham did get a penalty for that did he? max does the same thing and gets let off?

[AR3-GP]

Going too fast and at the wrong angle into a corner to get alongside and bouncing off the car on your outside to get your nose around is an arcade video game racing move.

So like Silverstone then?

ham did get a penalty for that did he? max does the same thing and gets let off?

Max earned a 5 second time penalty. Atleast in the context of Silverstone, the stewards were consistent. Maybe not in the severity of the penalty (since perhaps it didn't end Hamilton's race).

[the poster below]

The problem is that neither Hamilton or Verstappen back off when they see a line which they feel entitled to take. When you have a driver like Leclerc around them, they make space even though they perhaps shouldn’t. But when you have the two together contact is more or less a given.

I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)

[cplchanb]

So like Silverstone then?

ham did get a penalty for that did he? max does the same thing and gets let off?

He got a 5 second time penalty.

cant really read your stance. are you blaming max or ham?

[AR3-GP]

The problem is that neither Hamilton or Verstappen back off when they see a line which they feel entitled to take. When you have a driver like Leclerc around them, they make space even though they perhaps shouldn’t. But when you have the two together contact is more or less a given.

I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)

No. I think Max learned from Silverstone last year what to do when you have something to lose (how he raced Leclerc in the beginning of the year) and taking more risk when you don't have anything to lose (today). Interestingly I feel Hamilton took the opposite lesson perhaps out of frustration and it was poor timing because he could have won if he simply conceded, regardless of whether or not Verstappen was wrong to try and stick his nose there.

[chrisc90]

Interestingly the crash between Verstappen and Ocon in 2018 is a carbon copy of this one except that Verstappen was driving in Hamiltons position. Apparently he would have done exactly the same as Hamilton so he should have seen it coming.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/



Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose

Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.

"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.

"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."


Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...

[Gooch]

I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)

They definitely driver differently around each other, although it is hard to say if that's because it's specifically Max and Hamilton or the fact that they are the stiffest competition either faces. Like, Max has looked like he was on cruise control from San Marino to now, but as soon as the Mercs looked good again this weekend he started to drive more aggressively. Similarly Lewis was basically unchallenged from 2017-2020 so it was easy for him to make friendly passes on everyone.

[AR3-GP]

Interestingly the crash between Verstappen and Ocon in 2018 is a carbon copy of this one except that Verstappen was driving in Hamiltons position. Apparently he would have done exactly the same as Hamilton so he should have seen it coming.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/



Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose

Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.

"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.

"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."


Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...

I have likewise tried to point this out elsewhere. Hamilton made this discovery years ago. Why did he go against his sage advice today?

[graham.reeds]

Interestingly the crash between Verstappen and Ocon in 2018 is a carbon copy of this one except that Verstappen was driving in Hamiltons position. Apparently he would have done exactly the same as Hamilton so he should have seen it coming.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/



Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose

Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.

"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.

"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."


Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...

Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!

[AR3-GP]

Interestingly the crash between Verstappen and Ocon in 2018 is a carbon copy of this one except that Verstappen was driving in Hamiltons position. Apparently he would have done exactly the same as Hamilton so he should have seen it coming.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/



Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose

Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.

"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.

"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."


Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...

Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!

"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.

Well if he is NOT a backmarker, then one should definetely not assume he's going to back off, no?

I mean if Hamilton says that one cannot assume even a backmarker would back off, then why would he assume Max Verstappen would back off?

Help me rationalize this?

[Tvetovnato]

Max: “To be honest, I went around the outside, and I immediately felt he was not going to leave space. I just went for it, he didn’t leave me space, so I knew we were going to get together.”

This alone should send him to the back of the grid for the next race. He is literally open with ruining another drivers race for the sake of it. What. A. Child.

[chrisc90]

Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!

Suggest you read the article where Whiting says:

Whiting said Ocon was "absolutely allowed to unlap himself" but explained that it was the manner in which he attempted to pass Verstappen - who would have been vulnerable to a pass with DRS into Turn 4 had Ocon waited a little longer - that was the problem.

"It's happened many times in the past," said Whiting of whether lapped drivers can pass frontrunners. "But of course you expect it to be done safely.