USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[Ciro Pabón]

Has anybody information on this issue?

About drivers, I think Windsor has no idea. He mentioned these kids (yes, kids) in February:

1. Alexander Rossi: Born in 1991. Formula BMW winner, 2008.
2. Conor Daly: Age 17. Derek Daly's son.
3. Josef Newgarden: 19 years old.
4. Gabby Chaves. Looks like he's 14.

I like the best american in Indycars, Ryan Hunter. I don't remember the name of the american that runs protos in Europe, he's good.

Scott Speed has the experience, some people says. Experience in what? Perhaps it's best to hire Kyle Busch (yeah, sure) Allmendinger (double yeah), Summerton, Graham Rahal, Nick Hayden, or Antinucci. Rahal contract expires in 2009.

The american "emmigrants" would be an option, like Charlie Kimball, Sean McDonagh, Liam Kenney, Jake Rosenzweig or even Marco Andretti. That's what Ken Anderson said they were going to do. Brook Johnston or Matt Jaskel would be an option if the weren't taken by Red Bull.

If Canadians classify, have you heard of Robert Wickens?

My choice for a first year seat would be... yes, you guessed it! Richie Rich.



Still, I wonder why Windsor doesn't consider the obvious option for #1 driver: Chuck Norris.

[nae]

a dollar short and a day late

Historically American teams havent stayed the course
long enough the fulfil their potential

and in my opinion they would never do a Ferrari and not
win for years, stay out in the wilderness for 20 odd years
then come back and dominate, seems they want straight to
winning without the effort

[Jersey Tom]

First hand, I will say, a good chunk of NASCAR engineering talent and facilities in the Charlotte area are at or beyond the F1 level. Period. End of discussion.

Well, maybe at but I don't think beyond...
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2007/04/17/giant ... r-testing/
here's the first rolling road tunnel at USA circa 2007. Old news for F1.
Good news for USF1 as it is rental facility.

Talentwise - well it is possible, they gotta be pretty good in understanding tuning, but that's kinda like comparing cello player to violinist. You can (well, could) give Rostropovitch a violin and he probably won't suck, but I don't think he could immediately get to the Oistrakh's level.

That's also a FULL SCALE rolling road tunnel. Tell me how many of those any F1 team has built. I've been to that facility actually. Pretty sure it's only one of 2 or 3 in the world, private or otherwise.

With regard to talent, trust me on this one. Tuning, testing, design, fabrication.. the talent is all here. Be it in Charlotte, Indianapolis, or San Clemente, it's all here. A racecar is a racecar. Additionally, the pro motorsports community is surprisingly small, or at least close-knit. There are a lot of people who have worked in Sports Car, Stock Car, AND F1 or other pro Open Wheel at some point in their career. People move around a lot.

I think there's just an overriding elitist mentality among some F1 followers. Get it out of your head. I guarantee you, from 1st hand experience, there are certain things NASCAR engineers probably do a whole lot better than any F1 crew.

But that's all I'll say on the subject.

Will USF1 be dominant out the gate? No. I doubt it. I think finding the right driving talent and pulling it away from other series will be particularly difficult, at least in the first year. Technically though there is no reason for them to have any less competency than any other team on the grid. Really depends who they hire on, but the talent pool is available to draw from.

[xpensive]

Well, don't listen to me whatever you do, I thought it was a hoax all along...but what do you know, hats off.

[timbo]

That's also a FULL SCALE rolling road tunnel. Tell me how many of those any F1 team has built. I've been to that facility actually. Pretty sure it's only one of 2 or 3 in the world, private or otherwise.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/09/17/how- ... formula-1/

The Sauber wind tunnel is one of the best in F1, capable of testing full-scale cars on a rolling road at speeds up to 300 kph.

Meanwhile, Toyota F1 announced today that it is planning to add a second wind tunnel to its German facility, at a cost of $80 million.

I'm pretty sure that all top-teams in F1 have similar facilities. Note - the article is from 2005.

With regard to talent, trust me on this one. Tuning, testing, design, fabrication.. the talent is all here. Be it in Charlotte, Indianapolis, or San Clemente, it's all here. A racecar is a racecar. Additionally, the pro motorsports community is surprisingly small, or at least close-knit. There are a lot of people who have worked in Sports Car, Stock Car, AND F1 or other pro Open Wheel at some point in their career. People move around a lot.

I think there's just an overriding elitist mentality among some F1 followers. Get it out of your head. I guarantee you, from 1st hand experience, there are certain things NASCAR engineers probably do a whole lot better than any F1 crew.

Won't argue with that, but how relevant is NASCAR experience for F1?
Of course they can and will learn enough given time. Problem is whether people behind the show have enough patience and will to give them time.
And on elitist mentality - it is tough for newcomers to come in F1 and be at a top. Just look at stories of new comers in F1 - there were, sadly, no successful brand new F1 teams since Toyota. Also, famous open-wheelers manufacturers (Reynard and Lola) sucked horribly in their last attempts in F1.

Technically though there is no reason for them to have any less competency than any other team on the grid. Really depends who they hire on, but the talent pool is available to draw from.

Yes, it depends, and I wish'em all the luck.

[Ray]

I've lost alot of respect for some of the posts by people around this forum. Apparently the people of the United States are knuckle-dragging morons that can only turn left and drool on themselves. We seem to not have any talent in this country to build anything, and if it weren't for the Europeans making our race cars and the Chinese supplying us with everyday necessities we'd still be banging rocks together. I guess I should be ashamed at us Americans are trying to enter F1 and convince the world, who are those I'm speaking about, that Americans can race and that we are pretty damn good at it too. I'm beginning to believe that the problems with F1 aren't with Max and the FIA, I think it's the bigots that call themselves fans. Some of the people in here has posted the worst bigoted posts, and the most prejudiced opinions by people that I've ever read.

[Jersey Tom]

Won't argue with that, but how relevant is NASCAR experience for F1?

Very relevant. I'd even argue in some areas, NASCAR experience is more relevant to F1 than F1 experience is relevant to NASCAR.

There are some things that exist in F1 that don't exist in NASCAR, clearly. NASCAR does not use extensive microhydraulics and electronics to control an array of systems on the car, shifter etc. However, this is a well-defined field in mechanical engineering in general, and it's easy enough to bring on board a specialist in that field from any industry.

Likewise there's no EFI tuning in NASCAR. However, this is also a very well-defined field. There are many talented engineers with experience with it, both in pro motorsport and in the consumer market. In fact I'd feel pretty confident in saying many OEM ECUs are much more involved than the F1 SECU's and have much more test time in them. A friend of mine used to program and develop OEM ECU's. Incredbly involved.

Aerodynamic engineering and wind-tunnel testing is very critical to NASCAR. There are many dedicated specialists in this area. Additionally they're ALWAYS in traffic so disturbed fluid flow is par for the course. There is no where near the amount of actual airfoil development, but again this is a well-defined field with many domestic specialists and massive aerospace industry within the US. Furthermore there are non grip-limited NASCAR events (Daytona and Talladega being prime examples) where eliminating every ounce of aero and mechanical drag is essential to placing well. It is a big area of development and something they're very familiar with.

Exotic materials are nothing new. Massive development already exists state-side. At this point there are many college undergrads even, with direct experience in composite mechanics, powder metallurgy, rapid prototyping, etc. Even relatively small racecar manufacturers in the US use the same composite design software and layout/layup hardware as top F1 teams.

Limit tire/suspension engineering (race vehicle dynamics) is one very motorsport-specific area. This is the one place I'd bet many top NASCAR engineers are better than their F1 counterparts, or certainly equally as good. This is also the field I work in and am most familiar with. Sprint Cup cars are VERY dominated by mechanical and tire grip. It's a huge area of focus. Beyond that, the vehicle dynamics involved are much more complex in American stock car racing than most road racing! To be really competitive at some road tracks, you have to be able to run a slightly asymmetric setup. This is what stock car engineers are masters at. For an oval track you have to be able to do all the "normal" vehicle dynamics engineering, plus account for asymmetric setups and constantly changing co-ordinate systems as the cars come up and down on the banking. Plus, all competitive teams already do extensive simulation, K&C testing, 7-post testing, etc.

Is it relevant? Damn right it is. F1 is not it's own special little world. Nothing in F1 is magic. Are the budgets large? Sure. Are the cars very highly developed and extremely well built? Sure. Fundamentally though, it's 4-wheel racing.

[nae]

I've lost alot of respect

you will find that happens when political leaders invade other countries

Apparently the people of the United States are knuckle-dragging morons

for once we agree

We seem to not have any talent in this country to build anything,

the words that spring to mind are on time and on budget
and not killing test piolts

that Americans can race and that we are pretty damn good at it too

right up until someone from another country comes along and wins it

the most prejudiced opinions by peoples I've ever read.

'way' to gain friends an influence the thread.

which is why i choose to dissect your post in the manor above
take a long hard look at your post
breath deeply
look in the mirror again

still dont get it ?!
what you mean you still fail to see that others ribs of the USA dont actually have a base in fact,

NO!

/gives up


p.s. well happy to see an US team enter, but that in itself misses the point, its a team from the US not a US team, that is to say Red bull are not from a country they are a team from many country sponsored by a Austrian owned drinks company,

if you want team sport racing go race in A1GP
or get motor sport into the Olympics (bernie tried and failed)

[axle]

Still, I wonder why Windsor doesn't consider the obvious option for #1 driver: Chuck Norris.

Article 3.14.5.67. Chuck Norris is banned from FIA motorsport as he would crush the Red Team like an ant.

[timbo]

Article 3.14.5.67. Chuck Norris is banned from FIA motorsport as he would crush the Red Team like an ant.

This article is futile. It is not FIA which may ban Chuck Norris it is Chuck Norris who may band FIA.

[modbaraban]

This article is futile. It is not FIA which may ban Chuck Norris it is Chuck Norris who may band and spank FIA.

[timbo]

This article is futile. It is not FIA which may ban Chuck Norris it is Chuck Norris who may band and spank FIA.

Ouch, I made a typo but you've made it even better than I intended it to be)))

[PlatinumZealot]

I think the Americans will come up with something good. The same country who made all those impressive fighter Jets like the F22. May not be the best comparison but the point I am making is that when Americans put their mind to it, they produce pretty good results.

[jon-mullen]

Likewise there's no EFI tuning in NASCAR.

No EFI tuning? My understanding is there's no EFI period.

Aerodynamic engineering and wind-tunnel testing is very critical to NASCAR.

Which of course explains why NASCAR has essentially frozen aero development with the "Car of Tomorrow"?

I'd even argue in some areas, NASCAR experience is more relevant to F1 than F1 experience is relevant to NASCAR.

I think we all know this is really reaching. Realistically, the USF1 team will not be competitive its first year (or two or three) and they will probably shed a lot of personnel in the process of getting a team that works. You're talking about competing with teams that have been designing around this formula and running these tracks for years, let's not set the bar too high. If the team is around for a while there will eventually be Americans that are skilled at building (specifically) an F1 car, but until then I'd expect it to be a little embarrassing. Embarrassing like William's reliability, McLaren's morals, Ferrari's pit antics and FIF1's speed.


On this:

We seem to not have any talent in this country to build anything,

the words that spring to mind are on time and on budget
and not killing test piolts

How many people died testing Britain's most popular van? (according to Jeremy Clarkson)

[DaveKillens]

In 1998 when British American racing (BAR) announced it had acquired what was remaining in Tyrrell and would participate in Formula One, Craig Pollock (the team principal) made a lot of wild statements, bragging they would win races their first year. That's what I am always wary of, an unknown and unproven team boasting how good they would be......
That is a comparison I draw with USF1, that what they are saying to the public may be a bit excessive. It may attract publicity, but it also puts off those with more than just a surface knowledge of Formula One. I do believe that the resources inside the USA are there for the team to be successful, they just have to realize their potential. I wish them luck.