Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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I think the car won't look much different. if anything i think the zero pods will be modified a little to allow them more leway with the tunnel inlets!
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pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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The W14, one hears, does not have to differ greatly from the W13 on the outside. It can be assumed that Mercedes will make extensive changes to the floor and rework the rear axle in particular. However, drag must be drastically reduced.

Mercedes needs efficient and stable downforce in order to be faster on the straights and to present the drivers with a predictable car in the corners. You didn't have both in 2022. That's a huge task for the engineers.

You have to trust them to do the job. Even their Red Bull colleagues are impressed by how analytically the Mercedes engineers work. How Brackley streamlines processes and tweaks development tools to get better.

One question remains: Who loses how much with the edges of the underbody that are bent up by 15 millimeters. The FIA ​​estimates the loss at 15 to 20 points in downforce.

The floor was also trimmed from 2020 to 2021. Back then in front of the rear wheels. At that time to the advantage of Red Bull. Mercedes sees the rival at an advantage again.

At the end of the past season, Red Bull had already put the RB18 back in the rear more. That could also be a joker with the changed floor rules for 2023.
source:https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -mercedes/

SuperCNJ
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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pursue_one's wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:20 pm
The W14, one hears, does not have to differ greatly from the W13 on the outside. It can be assumed that Mercedes will make extensive changes to the floor and rework the rear axle in particular. However, drag must be drastically reduced.

Mercedes needs efficient and stable downforce in order to be faster on the straights and to present the drivers with a predictable car in the corners. You didn't have both in 2022. That's a huge task for the engineers.

You have to trust them to do the job. Even their Red Bull colleagues are impressed by how analytically the Mercedes engineers work. How Brackley streamlines processes and tweaks development tools to get better.

One question remains: Who loses how much with the edges of the underbody that are bent up by 15 millimeters. The FIA ​​estimates the loss at 15 to 20 points in downforce.

The floor was also trimmed from 2020 to 2021. Back then in front of the rear wheels. At that time to the advantage of Red Bull. Mercedes sees the rival at an advantage again.

At the end of the past season, Red Bull had already put the RB18 back in the rear more. That could also be a joker with the changed floor rules for 2023.
source:https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -mercedes/
I do hope they keep the same "look" of the W13 as I do think it's the best-looking car on the grid this year. The other cars, generally look rather conventional, albeit some extreme variations to the conventional. But it's been a while since I've seen something as innovative, different and bold as the W13. Despite it's flaws, my hope is that Mercs will stick with the same zero pod design and hopefully get the concept to work next year so we can see a better battle at the front.

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De Jokke
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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and

Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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SuperCNJ wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:22 pm
pursue_one's wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:20 pm
The W14, one hears, does not have to differ greatly from the W13 on the outside. It can be assumed that Mercedes will make extensive changes to the floor and rework the rear axle in particular. However, drag must be drastically reduced.

Mercedes needs efficient and stable downforce in order to be faster on the straights and to present the drivers with a predictable car in the corners. You didn't have both in 2022. That's a huge task for the engineers.

You have to trust them to do the job. Even their Red Bull colleagues are impressed by how analytically the Mercedes engineers work. How Brackley streamlines processes and tweaks development tools to get better.

One question remains: Who loses how much with the edges of the underbody that are bent up by 15 millimeters. The FIA ​​estimates the loss at 15 to 20 points in downforce.

The floor was also trimmed from 2020 to 2021. Back then in front of the rear wheels. At that time to the advantage of Red Bull. Mercedes sees the rival at an advantage again.

At the end of the past season, Red Bull had already put the RB18 back in the rear more. That could also be a joker with the changed floor rules for 2023.
source:https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -mercedes/
I do hope they keep the same "look" of the W13 as I do think it's the best-looking car on the grid this year. The other cars, generally look rather conventional, albeit some extreme variations to the conventional. But it's been a while since I've seen something as innovative, different and bold as the W13. Despite it's flaws, my hope is that Mercs will stick with the same zero pod design and hopefully get the concept to work next year so we can see a better battle at the front.
For me, I think the looks are quite deceptive. The livery is carrying the car imo. The way the silver and the blue sits on the bodywork hides all the defects. It's best angle is the one where the sidepod inlet is not visible.

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continuum16
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Taken from Merc socials; apparent seat fit for 2023 W14.

Image

I know some teams were considering re-using the same base tub in 2023 to save costs (and leave more $ for developing other areas). If that was the case, there wouldn't be a need for a seat fit, right? If it's the same chassis? So it would seem like the W14 will use a new tub.

There is another element which makes me think this is new: the W13 used a fully rounded cockpit profile behind the steering wheel, while this tub appears to have the more typical straight profile (near Russell's thumb, for reference) with rounded corners. That being said, the white-ish part has clearly been added onto the base (tan) structure so maybe I'm being misled.
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pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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I wonder how much Merc are having to compromise with the cockpit sizing due to George's height. Hamilton and Bottas are tiny compared to him.

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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From recall his only issue with the W11 (when he guested in place of LH), was that his she’s wouldn’t fit. The remainder of the tub didn’t feet flagged as an issue from either a dimensional or regulatory perspective.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

georgekyr
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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A new tub is also a way to lose weight. We all remember the new lighter chassis being ready for Red Bull which most probably they did not use it at all or used it just for Max last year due to the cost cap.
For Merc most probably there will be other optimizations as well since most expect a new suspension as well which would need tweaks.
Given last year's evolution I would expect that many teams would be able to have the minimum allowed weight from the start of the season. Then there would be room to develop better LEGO style components to allow cheaper upgrades throughout the year. Merc was really good at it last year, but given weight allowances I would expect investments in low weight parts that allow easy assembly and disassembly of parts, e.g., endplates of the front wing etc.

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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There are some speculations on this video quoting Toto who said W14 will be visually the same although underneath it's completely changed (new floor, better weight distribution & aero map, probably a new rear axle to accommodate a new rear suspension system) :

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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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Imo, Toto's concerns are correct. They started 10 months behind.

The problem now is that they are having to re-do stuff that others like RB and Ferrari already nailed the first time. Like the rear suspension. Merc have to waste money a second time to develop an appropriate rear suspension whereas the other 2 teams have something that likely will be carried over. It just means more budget for elsewhere.

AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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georgekyr wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:39 am
A new tub is also a way to lose weight. We all remember the new lighter chassis being ready for Red Bull which most probably they did not use it at all or used it just for Max last year due to the cost cap.
For Merc most probably there will be other optimizations as well since most expect a new suspension as well which would need tweaks.
Given last year's evolution I would expect that many teams would be able to have the minimum allowed weight from the start of the season. Then there would be room to develop better LEGO style components to allow cheaper upgrades throughout the year. Merc was really good at it last year, but given weight allowances I would expect investments in low weight parts that allow easy assembly and disassembly of parts, e.g., endplates of the front wing etc.
The irony is that "modularity" is the antithesis of weight savings. The modularity lets them run more parts at a lower cost, but it also makes the car heavier. Every joint is extra weight because joints have to be reinforced making them heavier than a single-piece construction.

johnny comelately
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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100mm or more shorter wheelbase

georgekyr
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Re: Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:27 pm
georgekyr wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:39 am
A new tub is also a way to lose weight. We all remember the new lighter chassis being ready for Red Bull which most probably they did not use it at all or used it just for Max last year due to the cost cap.
For Merc most probably there will be other optimizations as well since most expect a new suspension as well which would need tweaks.
Given last year's evolution I would expect that many teams would be able to have the minimum allowed weight from the start of the season. Then there would be room to develop better LEGO style components to allow cheaper upgrades throughout the year. Merc was really good at it last year, but given weight allowances I would expect investments in low weight parts that allow easy assembly and disassembly of parts, e.g., endplates of the front wing etc.
The irony is that "modularity" is the antithesis of weight savings. The modularity lets them run more parts at a lower cost, but it also makes the car heavier. Every joint is extra weight because joints have to be reinforced making them heavier than a single-piece construction.
For sure this is the case, but teams are now converging to the lower weight limit and it does not seem that FIA will lower this number so eventually they might be able to gain 2-4 kg in the coming and following seasons for supporting modularity. For me it is a new parameter to the game because of the cost cap.