2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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If 2023 is no better for Mercedes then likely Lewis will not bother driving or will take a different role in the team, in my opinion.

Regarding George, no reason not for Merc to give him #1 role, granted the only important point is who scores the most championship points, which in 2022… was George

mendis
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:37 pm
If 2023 is no better for Mercedes then likely Lewis will not bother driving or will take a different role in the team, in my opinion.

Regarding George, no reason not for Merc to give him #1 role, granted the only important point is who scores the most championship points, which in 2022… was George
I don't think it's an easy job for Mercedes to bounce back to the front in the cost cap era. Having said that, another year in the midfield would make both the drivers frustrated and error prone. I doubt if either driver would have the patience to continue if that happens. Mercedes need a 2 second jump in performance over W13 to come to the front of the field and by Toto's admission, they lost around 6 months trying to understand the porpoising problems, which would have obviously put them behind both Red Bull and Ferrari for that long in development.

I don't know if George is any good as he hasn't convincingly beaten Lewis and it would be in the better interest of both parties to look for better alternatives.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Aren't we getting a bit presumptuous? No one is entitled to a fast car. Neither driver should be "looking elsewhere" or "looking for another role" in such a short timeframe.

bosyber
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:40 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:37 pm
If 2023 is no better for Mercedes then likely Lewis will not bother driving or will take a different role in the team, in my opinion.

Regarding George, no reason not for Merc to give him #1 role, granted the only important point is who scores the most championship points, which in 2022… was George
I don't think it's an easy job for Mercedes to bounce back to the front in the cost cap era. Having said that, another year in the midfield would make both the drivers frustrated and error prone. I doubt if either driver would have the patience to continue if that happens. Mercedes need a 2 second jump in performance over W13 to come to the front of the field and by Toto's admission, they lost around 6 months trying to understand the porpoising problems, which would have obviously put them behind both Red Bull and Ferrari for that long in development.

I don't know if George is any good as he hasn't convincingly beaten Lewis and it would be in the better interest of both parties to look for better alternatives.
Alternatively, he's good, but Hamilton also remains great as well, I guess we'll see more this year. To me, speculation about how the team or drivers would/should be looking elsewhere do appear of a similar negative mindset.

Hamilton left McLaren after they not only lost the plot in developing their 2012 car, but also seemed to get stuck in a mire in strategy and racecraft (I'll grant, that maybe was partly due to wanting to support Button after the 1st flyaways when he was _nowhere_ while HAM kept chugging along for a while, which goes along with the team clearly not being HAM's team that year, which does possibly support him looking for an out if Russel one-ups him) . The non-performing car came after HAM was gone already.

harty71
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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If Hamilton is as good as many claim he is then Russell is exceptional, he will only be stronger this season and I expect him to be the teams number one by mid-season.

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chrisc90
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harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:16 pm
If Hamilton is as good as many claim he is then Russell is exceptional, he will only be stronger this season and I expect him to be the teams number one by mid-season.
Its the beginning of the end... and we already 2 seasons deep.

harty71
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:27 pm
harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:16 pm
If Hamilton is as good as many claim he is then Russell is exceptional, he will only be stronger this season and I expect him to be the teams number one by mid-season.
Its the beginning of the end... and we already 2 seasons deep.
It had to happen at some point, props to Hamilton for taking his beating like a man, a true class champion, still, sport evolves, the top younger drivers are on a different level.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:58 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:27 pm
harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:16 pm
If Hamilton is as good as many claim he is then Russell is exceptional, he will only be stronger this season and I expect him to be the teams number one by mid-season.
Its the beginning of the end... and we already 2 seasons deep.
It had to happen at some point, props to Hamilton for taking his beating like a man, a true class champion, still, sport evolves, the top younger drivers are on a different level.
It had to come. Same happened for other top drivers who lost their 'mojo' and dropped to the lesser teams.
It will honestly be interesting to see what comes this season when they have had chance to get a grip of the new regulations and rectified, with hope, any errors they made in '22 with the new reg set. There can be no further excuses with this season of car development etc etc.

There was huge hope the Hamilton contract talks would be sorted out over the winter period, but we have yet to hear of any contract extensions. I mean this should be a pretty easy negotiation for Mercedes/Lewis so im shocked its not 'finalised'. Which will mean a few options..... 1. Asking for too much money (which there was rumours about). But I dont think that Lewis is really in a strong position to be demanding more money. 2. Lewis is losing interest in the sport and cant bring himself to signing another year at least for '24. 3. Mercedes have said we dont think you worth £30mil a year (or whatever hes on) and Lewis disagrees with that - hence not signing yet.

I cant really think of any other reason why another year at least wouldnt be a easy option to sign up to.

I cant help but think that Mercedes, as a team, could be best off investing the money into other talent in the grid. But even that questions who could possible step into Lewis' position should he not continue in 2024. Mercedes have already lost their best talent in De Vries to the Red Bull group. So your really left with the F2 drivers who would be taking a MAJOR step up into a top team in F1.

I think losing De Vries was a HUGE kick in the teeth for Mercedes' future drive lineup. Unlikely they will sign Norris - given Red Bull have tried to grab him for a few years now and he hasnt been interested due to his contract at Mclaren.

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:22 pm
harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:58 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:27 pm


Its the beginning of the end... and we already 2 seasons deep.
It had to happen at some point, props to Hamilton for taking his beating like a man, a true class champion, still, sport evolves, the top younger drivers are on a different level.
It had to come. Same happened for other top drivers who lost their 'mojo' and dropped to the lesser teams.
It will honestly be interesting to see what comes this season when they have had chance to get a grip of the new regulations and rectified, with hope, any errors they made in '22 with the new reg set. There can be no further excuses with this season of car development etc etc.

There was huge hope the Hamilton contract talks would be sorted out over the winter period, but we have yet to hear of any contract extensions. I mean this should be a pretty easy negotiation for Mercedes/Lewis so im shocked its not 'finalised'. Which will mean a few options..... 1. Asking for too much money (which there was rumours about). But I dont think that Lewis is really in a strong position to be demanding more money. 2. Lewis is losing interest in the sport and cant bring himself to signing another year at least for '24. 3. Mercedes have said we dont think you worth £30mil a year (or whatever hes on) and Lewis disagrees with that - hence not signing yet.

I cant really think of any other reason why another year at least wouldnt be a easy option to sign up to.

I cant help but think that Mercedes, as a team, could be best off investing the money into other talent in the grid. But even that questions who could possible step into Lewis' position should he not continue in 2024. Mercedes have already lost their best talent in De Vries to the Red Bull group. So your really left with the F2 drivers who would be taking a MAJOR step up into a top team in F1.

I think losing De Vries was a HUGE kick in the teeth for Mercedes' future drive lineup. Unlikely they will sign Norris - given Red Bull have tried to grab him for a few years now and he hasnt been interested due to his contract at Mclaren.
That’s what you think, not the fact.
Let's see how it goes.

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chrisc90
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It will only become the ‘facts’ when it’s in the history books.

What’s your prediction?

RonMexico
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:22 pm
harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:58 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:27 pm


Its the beginning of the end... and we already 2 seasons deep.
It had to happen at some point, props to Hamilton for taking his beating like a man, a true class champion, still, sport evolves, the top younger drivers are on a different level.
It had to come. Same happened for other top drivers who lost their 'mojo' and dropped to the lesser teams.
It will honestly be interesting to see what comes this season when they have had chance to get a grip of the new regulations and rectified, with hope, any errors they made in '22 with the new reg set. There can be no further excuses with this season of car development etc etc.

There was huge hope the Hamilton contract talks would be sorted out over the winter period, but we have yet to hear of any contract extensions. I mean this should be a pretty easy negotiation for Mercedes/Lewis so im shocked its not 'finalised'. Which will mean a few options..... 1. Asking for too much money (which there was rumours about). But I dont think that Lewis is really in a strong position to be demanding more money. 2. Lewis is losing interest in the sport and cant bring himself to signing another year at least for '24. 3. Mercedes have said we dont think you worth £30mil a year (or whatever hes on) and Lewis disagrees with that - hence not signing yet.

I cant really think of any other reason why another year at least wouldnt be a easy option to sign up to.

I cant help but think that Mercedes, as a team, could be best off investing the money into other talent in the grid. But even that questions who could possible step into Lewis' position should he not continue in 2024. Mercedes have already lost their best talent in De Vries to the Red Bull group. So your really left with the F2 drivers who would be taking a MAJOR step up into a top team in F1.

I think losing De Vries was a HUGE kick in the teeth for Mercedes' future drive lineup. Unlikely they will sign Norris - given Red Bull have tried to grab him for a few years now and he hasnt been interested due to his contract at Mclaren.
The contract situation is the most interesting bit. Mercedes can give him a significant and public show of support by paying him big money. How much is Russell under contract for?

Mosin123
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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RonMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:30 am
chrisc90 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:22 pm
harty71 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:58 pm


It had to happen at some point, props to Hamilton for taking his beating like a man, a true class champion, still, sport evolves, the top younger drivers are on a different level.
It had to come. Same happened for other top drivers who lost their 'mojo' and dropped to the lesser teams.
It will honestly be interesting to see what comes this season when they have had chance to get a grip of the new regulations and rectified, with hope, any errors they made in '22 with the new reg set. There can be no further excuses with this season of car development etc etc.

There was huge hope the Hamilton contract talks would be sorted out over the winter period, but we have yet to hear of any contract extensions. I mean this should be a pretty easy negotiation for Mercedes/Lewis so im shocked its not 'finalised'. Which will mean a few options..... 1. Asking for too much money (which there was rumours about). But I dont think that Lewis is really in a strong position to be demanding more money. 2. Lewis is losing interest in the sport and cant bring himself to signing another year at least for '24. 3. Mercedes have said we dont think you worth £30mil a year (or whatever hes on) and Lewis disagrees with that - hence not signing yet.

I cant really think of any other reason why another year at least wouldnt be a easy option to sign up to.

I cant help but think that Mercedes, as a team, could be best off investing the money into other talent in the grid. But even that questions who could possible step into Lewis' position should he not continue in 2024. Mercedes have already lost their best talent in De Vries to the Red Bull group. So your really left with the F2 drivers who would be taking a MAJOR step up into a top team in F1.

I think losing De Vries was a HUGE kick in the teeth for Mercedes' future drive lineup. Unlikely they will sign Norris - given Red Bull have tried to grab him for a few years now and he hasnt been interested due to his contract at Mclaren.
The contract situation is the most interesting bit. Mercedes can give him a significant and public show of support by paying him big money. How much is Russell under contract for?
4 million pound a year / 5 mill USD

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mosin123 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:14 am
RonMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:30 am

The contract situation is the most interesting bit. Mercedes can give him a significant and public show of support by paying him big money. How much is Russell under contract for?
4 million pound a year / 5 mill USD
That's actually quite surprising given everything really. Especially given the next highest earner is Perez on £8.2m/year. However I guess that will go up in the negotiations next time round.
It does however put food for thought on the table for Mercedes bosses given how the 2022 standings played out and the whopping salary difference between the 2 drivers; A massive £29m a year. ( I guess the team knows exactly how much time in the season was sacrificed by drivers to car development rather than going out winning races)

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:56 am
Mosin123 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:14 am
RonMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:30 am

The contract situation is the most interesting bit. Mercedes can give him a significant and public show of support by paying him big money. How much is Russell under contract for?
4 million pound a year / 5 mill USD
That's actually quite surprising given everything really. Especially given the next highest earner is Perez on £8.2m/year. However I guess that will go up in the negotiations next time round.
It does however put food for thought on the table for Mercedes bosses given how the 2022 standings played out and the whopping salary difference between the 2 drivers; A massive £29m a year. ( I guess the team knows exactly how much time in the season was sacrificed by drivers to car development rather than going out winning races)
Its not just about on track value, Hamilton has a huge value to the team, sponsors (who pay more) and Merc/ineos/Woolf for work out of the car. Russell's day will come but he is not well enough known outside F1 yet
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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chrisc90
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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:33 pm


Its not just about on track value, Hamilton has a huge value to the team, sponsors (who pay more) and Merc/ineos/Woolf for work out of the car. Russell's day will come but he is not well enough known outside F1 yet
True. I guess there is that. I do presume that depends if sponsors prefer to invest in Lewis or the winning team as a whole.

Would Lewis bring in the massive investment from sponsors if he dropped down to Williams for example?