2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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PhillipM
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Inerters won't fix the issue because the issue is the teams allowing the floor edge to ride along the ground. That's what the FIA are trying to stop, before it leads to a big accident down the road as the cars develop.

n_anirudh
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:03 am
n_anirudh wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:36 pm
Will it affect the *poorer* teams who could have carried parts etc over the next season ?

Secondly, how do the teams know that raising the floor will help? Has there been research carried out and data shared by fia/fom?

Thinking out aloud her: Why is a 10mm change acceptable and not 25mm? Whatever the increase, new aero tests will have to be conducted unless they have accurate 0D models that can predict such changes ?
Well, poorer teams now have the same development budget. So it's a matter of choice what you'd want carry over. However I think the cost is overblown (by Horner mainly), since the floor/sidepods seem to be the main distinguishing parts of a car, that is what they would want to redesign first. Also Haas had no trouble completely changing the whole sidepod design within half a season.

The 25mm the FIA probably just pulled out of the air. The same place 10mm comes from, by the teams who'd think it's less disadvantageous for them. I think it should 19.23mm, just to look like it was a results of some complex calculations. :)

(No idea what 0D means)
0D = zero -dimensional or 1D models - essentially lower order models built from larger dimensional models (3D CFD/WT test/track aero)

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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djos wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:44 am
The only “penalties” I’m in favour of, are forcing a team with excessive bouncing to address it - or risk being disqualified.
That's sure to be a sh*tshow, as I detailed above. Making bouncing impossible is the real solution.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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n_anirudh wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:43 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:03 am
n_anirudh wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:36 pm
Will it affect the *poorer* teams who could have carried parts etc over the next season ?

Secondly, how do the teams know that raising the floor will help? Has there been research carried out and data shared by fia/fom?

Thinking out aloud her: Why is a 10mm change acceptable and not 25mm? Whatever the increase, new aero tests will have to be conducted unless they have accurate 0D models that can predict such changes ?
Well, poorer teams now have the same development budget. So it's a matter of choice what you'd want carry over. However I think the cost is overblown (by Horner mainly), since the floor/sidepods seem to be the main distinguishing parts of a car, that is what they would want to redesign first. Also Haas had no trouble completely changing the whole sidepod design within half a season.

The 25mm the FIA probably just pulled out of the air. The same place 10mm comes from, by the teams who'd think it's less disadvantageous for them. I think it should 19.23mm, just to look like it was a results of some complex calculations. :)

(No idea what 0D means)
0D = zero -dimensional or 1D models - essentially lower order models built from larger dimensional models (3D CFD/WT test/track aero)
Zero dimensional models?!

1 dimensional models is understood. It's a series of equations linking to another. One set of parameters gives one result at at pne state or one point.

2D is a planar/cross sectional simulations where you generate a 2D map of results.

And 3D generates results in 3D space.


So when you say zero dimensional... That must be a single constant or something..
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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PhillipM wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:05 am
Inerters won't fix the issue because the issue is the teams allowing the floor edge to ride along the ground. That's what the FIA are trying to stop, before it leads to a big accident down the road as the cars develop.
Drivers cause bigger accidents by driving like blind bats into T1.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:46 pm
Drivers cause bigger accidents by driving like blind bats into T1.
Completely irrelevant to the issue. Sudden loss of massive floor downforce caused by the floors rubbing the floor and unseating over a bump or a kerb is likely to send a car airborne into the catch fencing at some point.

MrGapes
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Masterclass with Willem Toet - lecture recording with Williem Toet speaking on the 2022 aero - with historic references

BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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MrGapes wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:39 am


Masterclass with Willem Toet - lecture recording with Williem Toet speaking on the 2022 aero - with historic references
Made some very interesting comments about Mercedes porpoising. Around the 1.05 hr mark he said that at Sauber, they use a rougher belt on their wind tunnel. Then he showed a picture of Mercedes wind tunnel where they had a very shiny, and likely smooth belt on their wind tunnel and speculated that that could have been a problem for them in understanding porpoising

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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:10 pm
MrGapes wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:39 am


Masterclass with Willem Toet - lecture recording with Williem Toet speaking on the 2022 aero - with historic references
Made some very interesting comments about Mercedes porpoising. Around the 1.05 hr mark he said that at Sauber, they use a rougher belt on their wind tunnel. Then he showed a picture of Mercedes wind tunnel where they had a very shiny, and likely smooth belt on their wind tunnel and speculated that that could have been a problem for them in understanding porpoising
That means all they learned in 2022 is useless

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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:10 pm
MrGapes wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:39 am


Masterclass with Willem Toet - lecture recording with Williem Toet speaking on the 2022 aero - with historic references
Made some very interesting comments about Mercedes porpoising. Around the 1.05 hr mark he said that at Sauber, they use a rougher belt on their wind tunnel. Then he showed a picture of Mercedes wind tunnel where they had a very shiny, and likely smooth belt on their wind tunnel and speculated that that could have been a problem for them in understanding porpoising
Do you think they are aware of that?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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... seriously? You think belt roughness isn't something which occurred to Mercedes?
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:12 pm
... seriously? You think belt roughness isn't something which occurred to Mercedes?
I don’t think so, maybe they were more focused on the car than the tools

But shovlin did say in a recent interview that they modified their tools to have better correlation so it could be that

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Belt changes are a normal part of testing correlation, they would have tried that.

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organic
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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https://www.pmw-magazine.com/features/t ... -pt-1.html

A nice article with quotes from technical figures in the sport highlihgting technical aspects of the 2022 regulations and teams' different approaches to various areas of the car

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Interesting.

Simone Resta comments near the end that they studied both concepts and felt the no-pod did not have as much potential.