2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE
the EDGE
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:51 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:41 pm


Does it also mean Mercedes and Hamilton won't be their biggest challenger? Or is he only lying when it's inconvenient :wink:
Everything that comes out of that man’s mouth is spin… but F1 staff will always talk up their competitors… even RB’s… that’s part of the spin
So would the way to interpret it to be to assume Ferrari will be the nearest rival and Marko is just trying to tick them off by downplaying them? That would make sense as Ferrari will not be pleased to be dismissed.
I think you’d be reading way to far into that. He was talking about Merc… why would he bring Ferrari into it. Hell big-up Ferraris chances when he gets asked a question about Ferrari

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:27 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:22 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:51 pm


Everything that comes out of that man’s mouth is spin… but F1 staff will always talk up their competitors… even RB’s… that’s part of the spin
So would the way to interpret it to be to assume Ferrari will be the nearest rival and Marko is just trying to tick them off by downplaying them? That would make sense as Ferrari will not be pleased to be dismissed.
I think you’d be reading way to far into that. He was talking about Merc… why would he bring Ferrari into it. Hell big-up Ferraris chances when he gets asked a question about Ferrari
He was asked already and he downplayed Ferrari and said Mercedes/Hamilton was to be feared more:
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko ... /10417733/

I think this was already posted but I don't see it so I posted it again, maybe I'm remembering the 2022 thread.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:32 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:27 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:22 pm


So would the way to interpret it to be to assume Ferrari will be the nearest rival and Marko is just trying to tick them off by downplaying them? That would make sense as Ferrari will not be pleased to be dismissed.
I think you’d be reading way to far into that. He was talking about Merc… why would he bring Ferrari into it. Hell big-up Ferraris chances when he gets asked a question about Ferrari
He was asked already and he downplayed Ferrari and said Mercedes/Hamilton was to be feared more:
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko ... /10417733/

I think this was already posted but I don't see it so I posted it again, maybe I'm remembering the 2022 thread.
Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:34 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:32 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:27 pm


I think you’d be reading way to far into that. He was talking about Merc… why would he bring Ferrari into it. Hell big-up Ferraris chances when he gets asked a question about Ferrari
He was asked already and he downplayed Ferrari and said Mercedes/Hamilton was to be feared more:
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko ... /10417733/

I think this was already posted but I don't see it so I posted it again, maybe I'm remembering the 2022 thread.
Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss
Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.

It was rumored that Toto was sizing James Vowles up as a successor at Mercedes. That James Vowles only gave Toto a months notice. Andy Cowell and many others left HPP the previous year to go to other teams or quit entirely.

Mercedes brain drain is not a myth and one can understand why things are tense. It doesn't even require Marko's input to see that.
Last edited by AR3-GP on Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:34 pm
Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss
Binotto will be remembered as a great engineer, yet unambitious TP. Lots of rumours suggest he also denied better status to the clearly better driver because he personally and inexplicably preferred the other one.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

the EDGE
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:34 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:32 pm


He was asked already and he downplayed Ferrari and said Mercedes/Hamilton was to be feared more:
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko ... /10417733/

I think this was already posted but I don't see it so I posted it again, maybe I'm remembering the 2022 thread.
Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss
Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team

Merc are well know for their great succession planning, many believe this move is part of it

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:34 pm


Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss
Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team

Merc are well know for their great succession planning, many believe this move is part of it
JV was the Toto succession plan. He's now at another team....

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:34 pm


Well let’s be honest… We all think that too. All cannot be right at the Ferrari camp if they have just sacked their team boss
Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team
Also, Mattia resigned, he wasn't sacked.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:32 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm


Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team
Also, Mattia resigned, he wasn't sacked.
Cmoooon do you really believe he resigned? Officially sure

But it is exceedingly rare that a high level position such as that get sacked. It is always: position becomes untenable -> resignation rather than the board/higher-ups having to officially fire them. Both parties benefit from calling it a resignation publicly
Last edited by organic on Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:30 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm


Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team

Merc are well know for their great succession planning, many believe this move is part of it
JV was the Toto succession plan. He's now at another team....
No reason why he can not return with more experience, just following Wolff's path?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:32 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm


Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team
Also, Mattia resigned, he wasn't sacked.
Technically correct. And one explanation for that is he just woke up one day, & everything was so rosey, he thought he’d resign from his dream job at a top team an go pick flowers in his garden for the rest of his life. But I don’t think so

f1jcw
f1jcw
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:30 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm


Mercedes just lost their chief of strategy, and reportedly he took some good people with him to Williams.

By the same deduction you use to discuss Ferrari losing their team boss, you would have to conclude that Marko is correct that not all is right at Mercedes either.

It's naive to pretend it had no impact on team morale when someone whose been there for a decade now left with some other staff.
I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team

Merc are well know for their great succession planning, many believe this move is part of it
JV was the Toto succession plan. He's now at another team....
Sorry, that’s the first I’ve heard, and as for a months notice, it was reported they’d being preparing his move for month.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:32 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:11 pm


I would say sacking TP is both far more demoralising and shows more problems in a team, than what would happen if someone in another team leaves to take a great promotion opportunity, as that shows no weakness in the team
Also, Mattia resigned, he wasn't sacked.
Technically correct. And one explanation for that is he just woke up one day, & everything was so rosey, he thought he’d resign from his dream job at a top team an go pick flowers in his garden for the rest of his life. But I don’t think so
I think we should get back to the heart of the matter which was accessing the credibility of the idea that someone in the position of James Vowles leaving his role, and taking some people with him, along with prior departures such as Andy Cowell and other HPP personnel, is weighing negatively on Mercedes, and potentially the team morale.

As Helmut Marko suggested, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume it has. Whose next? Hamilton in 2 years time? Toto probably at the same time?

JV's departure is significant. It was rumored that he was one a potential successor for Toto.

Contrary to what you initially proposed, I don't think this is "spinning" of any kind. These are real issues and concerns than any organization would be facing after the departure of one of their own. He has taken some people with him and this comes against the baggage of a very poor 2022 season and potentially knowing that there will be more departures to come in the near future (likely Hamilton and Toto in the next 3-4 years).

These events are not happening in isolation. It's not "nothing". Personnel will be feeling like the "Dream team" is coming to an end, piece by piece. Cowell gone. Vowles gone. Soon Hamilton and Toto. The team has to be planning for a post Wolff-Hamilton future.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:21 am
the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:43 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:32 pm


Also, Mattia resigned, he wasn't sacked.
Technically correct. And one explanation for that is he just woke up one day, & everything was so rosey, he thought he’d resign from his dream job at a top team an go pick flowers in his garden for the rest of his life. But I don’t think so
I think we should get back to the heart of the matter which was accessing the credibility of the idea that someone in the position of James Vowles leaving his role, and taking some people with him, along with prior departures such as Andy Cowell and other HPP personnel, is weighing negatively on Mercedes, and potentially the team morale.

As Helmut Marko suggested, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume it has. Whose next? Hamilton in 2 years time? Toto probably at the same time?

JV's departure is significant. It was rumored that he was one a potential successor for Toto.

Contrary to what you initially proposed, I don't think this is "spinning" of any kind. These are real issues and concerns than any organization would be facing after the departure of one of their own. He has taken some people with him and this comes against the baggage of a very poor 2022 season and potentially knowing that there will be more departures to come in the near future (likely Hamilton and Toto in the next 3-4 years).

These events are not happening in isolation. It's not "nothing". Personnel will be feeling like the "Dream team" is coming to an end, piece by piece. Cowell gone. Vowles gone. Soon Hamilton and Toto. The team has to be planning for a post Wolff-Hamilton future.
Well said.

I cant see Toto staying without Lewis in the team.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

f1jcw
f1jcw
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:21 am

JV's departure is significant. It was rumored that he was one a potential successor for Toto.
Please cite your source