Red Bull RB19

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Chuckjr wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:13 am
If you watch the replay, I think there is a photographer taking photos of the underbelly before they set it down on the grass. He’s down on one knee taking photos when they had the car in the air. Maybe photos will drop over the coming days—I hope. [-o<
That guy will get a nice retirement fund selling those photos to rival teams. Or maybe RB will pay him off….

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aleks_ader
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:14 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:13 am
If you watch the replay, I think there is a photographer taking photos of the underbelly before they set it down on the grass. He’s down on one knee taking photos when they had the car in the air. Maybe photos will drop over the coming days—I hope. [-o<
That guy will get a nice retirement fund selling those photos to rival teams. Or maybe RB will pay him off….
So now this will be photoshot money not just catering LOL. Sorry for off tangent.

Mainly i would be even surprised that they changed anything drastically WE ALREADY SAW from Monaco last year TBH. Evolution is name of game when RB hit the concept from get go. I got even doubt they even show their true potential.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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After today's qualifying it is clear to me that the RB19's greatest strength is also its Achilles' heel. Engine braking and the associated software mappings for energy recovery.

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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If this is occurring, what are they doing that is unique in terms of driveline braking? Whether by the engine or the MGUK.

Engine braking would imply something unique within the engine itself. However most of the primary engine geometry is identical for all of the engine suppliers. MGUK operates through the crankshaft and only supplies ~1/5 of overall power.
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mzso
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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marcel171281 wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:04 am
atanatizante wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:36 pm
Another Italian YouTuber (click auto-translate for English) suggests that at certain loads the beam wing and diffuser are stalling inducing a kind of triple DRS effect. Could it be right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMclnOtSJGY
I just don't get all this speculation about the RB DRS. It is just a DRS like any DRS, there is no magic bullet. It is just a very good and slipery design, with yet plenty downforce.
Why? RB tended to have magic bullets like, flex wings and blown diffusers, that others needed to copy.

It seemed like to it was Mercedes' MO to to brute force investigate and optimize everything in the unlimited budget era.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:16 pm
If this is occurring, what are they doing that is unique in terms of driveline braking? Whether by the engine or the MGUK.

Engine braking would imply something unique within the engine itself. However most of the primary engine geometry is identical for all of the engine suppliers. MGUK operates through the crankshaft and only supplies ~1/5 of overall power.
There is nothing unique about it. Honda has developed an MGUK that allows it to recover greater amounts of energy in a very short time than its competitors. This has been confirmed by telemetry data already. Where other teams run dry at the end of the lap, the Honda engine still has battery juice left. But this comes at a price: drivability. That's why Max is always on the radio with his engineer about the downshifts. They fine tune the mappings/settings for the car's energy recovery.

If these mappings, which are presumably very aggressive, are not tuned perfectly (or there is a technical issue with the system), there will be drivability problems under braking and this might lead to a driver becoming insecure and prone to making mistakes. I think that's what we saw with Perez this weekend.

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AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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gandharva wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:33 pm
vorticism wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:16 pm
If this is occurring, what are they doing that is unique in terms of driveline braking? Whether by the engine or the MGUK.

Engine braking would imply something unique within the engine itself. However most of the primary engine geometry is identical for all of the engine suppliers. MGUK operates through the crankshaft and only supplies ~1/5 of overall power.
There is nothing unique about it. Honda has developed an MGUK that allows it to recover greater amounts of energy in a very short time than its competitors. This has been confirmed by telemetry data already. Where other teams run dry at the end of the lap, the Honda engine still has battery juice left. But this comes at a price: drivability. That's why Max is always on the radio with his engineer about the downshifts. They fine tune the mappings/settings for the car's energy recovery.

If these mappings, which are presumably very aggressive, are not tuned perfectly, there will be drivability problems under braking and this might lead to a driver becoming insecure and prone to making mistakes. I think that's what we saw with Perez this weekend.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_sTIu0ybGnk/ ... S%2B01.jpg
The advantage isn't coming from just the MGU-K braking. Honda's advantage is also about the MGU-H recovery which passes to the battery. I cannot find the article yet, but it was explained that Honda made a choice to sacrifice peak power of the ICE, in order to have better MGU-H performance (or something to that effect).

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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That could very well be true, and I am very interested in this article, but it is not relevant to the case I wanted to highlight.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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gandharva wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:44 pm
That could very well be true, and I am very interested in this article, but it is not relevant to the case I wanted to highlight.
I think it is, because if it were that simple, that you just use more MGU-K retardation to recover more energy (hmmm why didn't I think of that 3 years ago #-o ), then everyone would be doing it because it's just a software change and you would never observe the gap we see today. The actual difference between the Honda/Ferrari/Merc is more likely to be attributed to the fundamental decisions regarding the MGU-H which cannot be changed in the PU homologation.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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As we are talking about kinetic energy, the whole system needs to be able to handle this higher forces. Crankshaft, gearbox and so on. So it's clearly not just software. Their H might also be better than the competitors, but this has no direct influence on the drivability under braking.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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edit: moved to PU thread.

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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motorsport.com
Image
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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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First look at a RB 18" wheel:
Image
Matt Sutton
motorsport.com
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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:44 am
First look at a RB 18" wheel:
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... car-1.webp
Matt Sutton
motorsport.com
What are these? Drive pins? It seems like this would make the wheel harder to mount when fast pit stop is needed.

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Yeah, drive lugs. The hub is entirely perforated so mounting isn't an issue.

Of note: 7 to 14 spoke layout with 8 pins/lugs. Who signed off on this? :shock: :D
Quite thick spokes as well compared to previous eras. Cars are heavier though and they might be cored out on the other faces.
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