2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Hammerfist]

If you paid attention to Toto’s words recently it was clear they would change their side pod philosophy. They said they wanted to make sure it wasn’t an issue, to paraphrase. Looking forward to see the whole car now. Most awaited upgrade ever.

[chrisc90]

I thought Toto said that the side pods weren’t the issue.

[ValeVida46]

No, I want to highlight how meaningless those words were, and point out how silly it was to blindly believe it as so many in these threads did. The "it's not even the problem" sentiment was pervasive, because people listened to words instead of analysing what was happening with the car.

People can analyse independently of statements. I think the struggle to find solutions is the same applied to every single team.

Isolating problems and dealing with them is nothing new. I simply don't get why (some)people week in week out just come here to jump on what was said. It's like a sport within a sport to sharpen knives on media questions to team bosses.

[Hammerfist]

I thought Toto said that the side pods weren’t the issue.

Just two weeks ago posted here:

Toto Wolff:
It's a lack of comprehension of what it is that makes this car such a nasty piece of work

I think what we're trying to do with the upgrade is to create a new baseline and for us to take question marks out of the equation and say, this is not the problem now that we have gone to a different concept.

This is what is happening with the front suspension and we are looking at bodywork solutions that are more conventional than ours, and that are going to create a different airflow.
https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff ... /10466352/


People on this site have very short memories.

[ValeVida46]

I thought Toto said that the side pods weren’t the issue.

So you don't recall when he said there were no sacred cows?

In February this year he said they may change. Over 3 months ago
https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... d-changes/


Maybe, just maybe, Mercedes are allowed to change a concept they tried to make work on the basis of exactly what he said?

Throughout last season, we have analysed it back and forth, whether it was right or not and obviously you can see the sidepods are very different to any other car, but we believe that this is not the performance relative part,” Wolff explained to media including PlanetF1.com at the launch of the W14.

“Obviously, there is no such thing as a holy cow here. We are looking at everything and, on the sidepods, this is the first iteration, and when we’re going through the first few races, that’s going to change a little bit.

“But like Mike [Elliott, technical director] said in the launch, [if] you want to change your concept completely then [you’re] making not one step back, but probably two, three – and that’s why we stayed where we are.

“And I love the fact that we are bold, we stayed bold, and we are just continuing to follow what the science says for us

So essentially, he's literally telling you it could change depending on the science of what happens after.

[AR3-GP]

Still zero pod

[ValeVida46]

People on this site has very short memories.

It's selective, and negatively biased. Surprised the mods allow it to continue to be honest.

[ValeVida46]

Still zero pod

How? That looks like a pod to me.
Granted we should wait for more pics on this but it does seem to validate what PZ was saying right?

[Cs98]

No, I want to highlight how meaningless those words were, and point out how silly it was to blindly believe it as so many in these threads did. The "it's not even the problem" sentiment was pervasive, because people listened to words instead of analysing what was happening with the car.

People can analyse independently of statements. I think the struggle to find solutions is the same applied to every single team.

Isolating problems and dealing with them is nothing new. I simply don't get why (some)people week in week out just come here to jump on what was said. It's like a sport within a sport to sharpen knives on media questions to team bosses.

Is this not the forum to expose lies about the technicalities of F1?

[ValeVida46]

No, I want to highlight how meaningless those words were, and point out how silly it was to blindly believe it as so many in these threads did. The "it's not even the problem" sentiment was pervasive, because people listened to words instead of analysing what was happening with the car.

People can analyse independently of statements. I think the struggle to find solutions is the same applied to every single team.

Isolating problems and dealing with them is nothing new. I simply don't get why (some)people week in week out just come here to jump on what was said. It's like a sport within a sport to sharpen knives on media questions to team bosses.

Is this not the forum to expose lies about the technicalities of F1?

Ohhh right, the team threads are here for the purpose of "exposing lies".
I must be in the wrong place.

[mendis]

Still zero pod

Yes. If it was zero when it had one, then this is status quo.

[Cs98]

People can analyse independently of statements. I think the struggle to find solutions is the same applied to every single team.

Isolating problems and dealing with them is nothing new. I simply don't get why (some)people week in week out just come here to jump on what was said. It's like a sport within a sport to sharpen knives on media questions to team bosses.

Is this not the forum to expose lies about the technicalities of F1?

Ohhh right, the team threads are here for the purpose of "exposing lies".
I must be in the wrong place.

That’s not the exclusive purpose. But if a team were to repeatedly tell a non-truth in regards to the technical aspects of the car, I should think “F1technical” would be the website you can talk about it.

Anyways, I made my point. Now I look forward to seeing the performance of the new spec car.

[ValeVida46]

That’s not the exclusive purpose. But if a team were to repeatedly tell a non-truth in regards to the technical aspects of the car, I should think “F1technical” would be the website you can talk about it.

Anyways, I made my point. Now I look forward to seeing the performance of the new spec car.

You literally had Wolf state they would change the pods if the science dictated that in February 2023.
"there are no sacred cows, if it requires a change we will do so according to the data"

At the time it is very plausible the data backed up continuation of the pods. Since then they've had their tests which brought up issues that meant a change was required. A fact backed up by this statement from Elliott after FP1 in Bahrain on the 3rd of March:

Toto already said we’ve got a different bodywork coming; it won't be the same as other people’s and it won’t be the same as we’ve got, it’ll be different.

“It’s part of the normal development. We have got a very different sidepod coming – I say very different, a different sidepod that’s coming. I think Toto said that in the press. But it takes time to bring that. It takes time to make the bits, it takes time to change the bits that go underneath the bodywork to fit, so we’ll bring it as soon as we can,”

If a team gives a concept time to come through given that Budget caps don't allow for a total redesign, they should really be allowed to do so without being called liars. Would you do so on the Ferrari thread for example, as their upgrades missed target and they have their own design path? Where would the technical value be in that?

Because we already have provable statements from the team to state they had to be absolutely sure they were wrong and they would change if data dictated.

A point that's compounded because they had windtunnel issues and actually fired staff because the margin parameters were not met(according to formulaUno). So there is smoke to the fire of why there is confusion surrounding their quandary.

[continuum16]

There is definitely confusion, and between now and 12 months ago I’m sure there are conflicting press releases/interviews with Toto, Eliott, and other Merc staff. I personally don’t see this as deliberate deception, but more of a product of us living in an age where the media and fans want updates on the team’s progress every 5 seconds, and the actual development curve is quite “out of phase” with this. Also, Toto isn’t in the wind tunnel running aero tests, or making CAD models, or fabricating parts. While I’m sure he gets updates from people in the design/testing/fabrication depts., it’s probably outdated within a few days if their concept is in flux. I would expect that’s pretty normal, and that any more involvement would probably come across as micromanagement from Toto.

So when someone asks Toto for an update, I would assume he just tells them what he knows, and is not extrapolating. I suppose that assumption could be wrong but IMO there’s no benefit to doing that. Then, when the drivers or technical leaders are interviewed, they not only have to answer to the best of their ability but also have to consider what Toto said to avoid crossing wires, OR they say what they think is right even if it contradicts what Wolff said. This probably happens multiple times on a race weekend and when you consider that this has been going on for well over a year that’s where the confusion becomes overwhelming. For sure better PR strategy could mitigate this but unless they adopt a policy of radio silence there will be some degree of stepping on each other’s toes.

Regardless, we’ll have a much better read on what Mercedes’ plan is for the short to medium term in about 24-48 hours.

[Farnborough]

I'd certainly not accuse any of the teams of lying, what would be the point of that anyway.

But, and its a big BUT, this sport along with the participants has relentlessly pushed into self promotion, information and viewer involvement, it's extremely niave to not offer competent presentation to that enhanced audience at this point of very high interest.

They, MB, are making a complete pantomime of this whole era, is that intentionally presented or pretty amateur ?

They did make a pantomime camel of a car in performance terms though, so maybe this is entirely appropriate.