2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:23 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:06 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:19 pm


Are we saying that by Permane asking F1 to allow Alpine to upgrade their PU to be equal with the other PUs in power, he's anti Chatillion-Viry?

It's obvious to me that execution has been their biggest problem. That falls straight on the race team. Both Enston and CV have done very good work.
Their problem is the chassis and engine, not the race team. They have some of the quicker pitstops and strategy isn't terrible.
For me, you have a the "PU team" that develops the PU. Then you have a Chassis team that develop the Chassis and you have a race team that manages the setup and all the strategies for the race etc etc etc. Everything that happens at the races. That includes the drivers the engineers, Team principle anybody that touches that.

The PU isn't a problem, it is what it is. The Chassis and PU have looked faster than the results have shown and I attribute that to the race team.
The PU is 30hp down according to the team. To the point that Alan Permane went to the sporting commision to campaign for an adjustment.

The chassis is nowhere near Aston Martin or Mclaren.

Are we watching the same season? It's the 6th best car on track currently. Not even Alonso could save this car.

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MIKEY_!
7
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:07 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:07 pm
MIKEY_! wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:06 am
As for Otmar's comments about Alonso's age, it was always about the reality that eventually Alonso's age would catch up with him, and the team wanted some flexibility for when that happened.
That seems fine. So Alpine did not want to continue with Alonso, ok no big deal. So in that case why not offer a compelling contract to Piastri before Piastri had signed with McLaren?! :wtf:
Great question. Rossi and the legal team (contracts were being handled from that side, not by Otmar or his people) made an absolute mess of things. Piastri didn't even have a proper contract for his reserve driver job. It was a crazy situation.

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Zynerji
109
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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I just finished a contract and I'm taking a few weeks off before I choose a new one. Alpine, you can inbox me! 🤣

I'll fix ur ---.

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JordanMugen
83
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:19 pm
Are we saying that by Permane asking F1 to allow Alpine to upgrade their PU to be equal with the other PUs in power, he's anti Chatillion-Viry?
Yes, he should be supportive of Chatillion-Viry's efforts. Going to the FIA and this being leaked to the press makes Alpine-Renault "lose face" which is surely unacceptable for a works team?

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
341
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:47 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:19 pm
Are we saying that by Permane asking F1 to allow Alpine to upgrade their PU to be equal with the other PUs in power, he's anti Chatillion-Viry?
Yes, he should be supportive of Chatillion-Viry's efforts. Going to the FIA and this being leaked to the press makes Alpine-Renault "lose face" which is surely unacceptable for a works team?
Permane would have done this with the full support of Viry. How else would he have any understanding of what the limitations were and what the solution could be?

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peewon
3
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:11 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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I would say the chassis side has been fine under the new regs. Their race day operations are fine. PU is the worst on the grid by consensus on the paddock. The fact that its devolved into Viry vs Enstone debate shows complete lack of leadership within Renault.

De Meo has to start taking some responsibility for his hiring of Rossi, letting him run roughshod over the team. He needs to put a media gag order on everyone else on the team, hire a competent team principal and do a full autopsy of situation. They need a hard reset.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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+1 ...

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diffuser
224
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:34 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:23 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:06 pm


Their problem is the chassis and engine, not the race team. They have some of the quicker pitstops and strategy isn't terrible.
For me, you have a the "PU team" that develops the PU. Then you have a Chassis team that develop the Chassis and you have a race team that manages the setup and all the strategies for the race etc etc etc. Everything that happens at the races. That includes the drivers the engineers, Team principle anybody that touches that.

The PU isn't a problem, it is what it is. The Chassis and PU have looked faster than the results have shown and I attribute that to the race team.
The PU is 30hp down according to the team. To the point that Alan Permane went to the sporting commision to campaign for an adjustment.

The chassis is nowhere near Aston Martin or Mclaren.

Are we watching the same season? It's the 6th best car on track currently. Not even Alonso could save this car.
30 hp is like 1-3% HP. I'm calculating that on a average HP of 1100HP. They could have 1200. Or it could be 1000HP but they could also be down just 15hp. 1% or 2 % is not alot in the overall scheme of things. The biggest difference in points compare to last year for Ocon is 4 DNF in the first half vs 1 last year.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
341
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

Post

diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:05 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:34 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:23 pm


For me, you have a the "PU team" that develops the PU. Then you have a Chassis team that develop the Chassis and you have a race team that manages the setup and all the strategies for the race etc etc etc. Everything that happens at the races. That includes the drivers the engineers, Team principle anybody that touches that.

The PU isn't a problem, it is what it is. The Chassis and PU have looked faster than the results have shown and I attribute that to the race team.
The PU is 30hp down according to the team. To the point that Alan Permane went to the sporting commision to campaign for an adjustment.

The chassis is nowhere near Aston Martin or Mclaren.

Are we watching the same season? It's the 6th best car on track currently. Not even Alonso could save this car.
30 hp is like 1-3% HP. I'm calculating that on a average HP of 1100HP. They could have 1200. Or it could be 1000HP but they could also be down just 15hp. 1% or 2 % is not alot in the overall scheme of things. The biggest difference in points compare to last year for Ocon is 4 DNF in the first half vs 1 last year.
I don't know about that. It's factually a big difference to the point that teams agreed before the freeze that PUs that were outside of the 1% would have discussion about closing down the gap.

It's also around the same amount that Ferrari had to turn their PU down by last year which was noted in the paddock. It not only impacts the peak output, but also limits the energy recovery. It's a vicious cycle.

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diffuser
224
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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:roll:
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:17 am
diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:05 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:34 pm


The PU is 30hp down according to the team. To the point that Alan Permane went to the sporting commision to campaign for an adjustment.

The chassis is nowhere near Aston Martin or Mclaren.

Are we watching the same season? It's the 6th best car on track currently. Not even Alonso could save this car.
30 hp is like 1-3% HP. I'm calculating that on a average HP of 1100HP. They could have 1200. Or it could be 1000HP but they could also be down just 15hp. 1% or 2 % is not alot in the overall scheme of things. The biggest difference in points compare to last year for Ocon is 4 DNF in the first half vs 1 last year.
I don't know about that. It's factually a big difference to the point that teams agreed before the freeze that PUs that were outside of the 1% would have discussion about closing down the gap.

It's also around the same amount that Ferrari had to turn their PU down by last year which was noted in the paddock. It not only impacts the peak output, but also limits the energy recovery. It's a vicious cycle.
Alonso only had 2 DNFs in the first half last year, Gasly has 3. So 7 DNFs this year in the first half vs 3 last year in the first half.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
341
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

Post

diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:30 am
:roll:
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:17 am
diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:05 am


30 hp is like 1-3% HP. I'm calculating that on a average HP of 1100HP. They could have 1200. Or it could be 1000HP but they could also be down just 15hp. 1% or 2 % is not alot in the overall scheme of things. The biggest difference in points compare to last year for Ocon is 4 DNF in the first half vs 1 last year.
I don't know about that. It's factually a big difference to the point that teams agreed before the freeze that PUs that were outside of the 1% would have discussion about closing down the gap.

It's also around the same amount that Ferrari had to turn their PU down by last year which was noted in the paddock. It not only impacts the peak output, but also limits the energy recovery. It's a vicious cycle.
Alonso only had 2 DNFs in the first half last year, Gasly has 3. So 7 DNFs this year in the first half vs 3 last year in the first half.
I don't follow what this has to do with my post about PU disparities or performance. DNFs don't change the fact that they are the 6th fastest car.

What are we discussing here? You're saying their problem is "race operations" not performance. They are miles off Aston and Mclaren, nevermind Red Bull. They are frequently getting knocked out in Q2. :?

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peewon
3
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:11 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

Post

diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:05 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:34 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:23 pm


For me, you have a the "PU team" that develops the PU. Then you have a Chassis team that develop the Chassis and you have a race team that manages the setup and all the strategies for the race etc etc etc. Everything that happens at the races. That includes the drivers the engineers, Team principle anybody that touches that.

The PU isn't a problem, it is what it is. The Chassis and PU have looked faster than the results have shown and I attribute that to the race team.
The PU is 30hp down according to the team. To the point that Alan Permane went to the sporting commision to campaign for an adjustment.

The chassis is nowhere near Aston Martin or Mclaren.

Are we watching the same season? It's the 6th best car on track currently. Not even Alonso could save this car.
30 hp is like 1-3% HP. I'm calculating that on a average HP of 1100HP. They could have 1200. Or it could be 1000HP but they could also be down just 15hp. 1% or 2 % is not alot in the overall scheme of things. The biggest difference in points compare to last year for Ocon is 4 DNF in the first half vs 1 last year.
The difference is that they were the 5th fastest team last year with Ricciardo having forgotten how to drive, so effectively 4.5 fastest. Factor in DNFs for top teams last year, RBs reliability issues in the beginning of last year, Ferrari's spinning out of a few races and you start to see a decent points haul available to them. This year they are 6th fastest. If anything, in terms of race pace, they are closer to the pack behind RB this year than they were last year. It just won't translate to points for the reason mentioned before.

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diffuser
224
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:35 am
diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:30 am
:roll:
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:17 am


I don't know about that. It's factually a big difference to the point that teams agreed before the freeze that PUs that were outside of the 1% would have discussion about closing down the gap.

It's also around the same amount that Ferrari had to turn their PU down by last year which was noted in the paddock. It not only impacts the peak output, but also limits the energy recovery. It's a vicious cycle.
Alonso only had 2 DNFs in the first half last year, Gasly has 3. So 7 DNFs this year in the first half vs 3 last year in the first half.
I don't follow what this has to do with my post about PU disparities or performance. DNFs don't change the fact that they are the 6th fastest car.

What are we discussing here? You're saying their problem is "race operations" not performance. They are miles off Aston and Mclaren, nevermind Red Bull. They are frequently getting knocked out in Q2. :?
I think if Alonso was there, they'd be 3ird. Ocon is hot at some tracks and cold at others. Gasly has been getting used to the car and we still haven't seen consistency from him nor do we know if he can be. Dispite the driver BS, they've been 4th fastest most of the year. Only being surpassed by McLaren(in speed) of late. Don't forget McLaren has been almost dead last for most of the year. They threw away a ton of points in Australia after the Haas retirement with a couple of laps to go.To add insult to injury, McLaren ended up with 14 points, when they were running out of the points before that.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
341
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

Post

diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:22 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:35 am
diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:30 am
:roll:

Alonso only had 2 DNFs in the first half last year, Gasly has 3. So 7 DNFs this year in the first half vs 3 last year in the first half.
I don't follow what this has to do with my post about PU disparities or performance. DNFs don't change the fact that they are the 6th fastest car.

What are we discussing here? You're saying their problem is "race operations" not performance. They are miles off Aston and Mclaren, nevermind Red Bull. They are frequently getting knocked out in Q2. :?
I think if Alonso was there, they'd be 3ird. Ocon is hot at some tracks and cold at others. Gasly has been getting used to the car and we still haven't seen consistency from him nor do we know if he can be. Dispite the driver BS, they've been 4th fastest most of the year. Only being surpassed by McLaren(in speed) of late. Don't forget McLaren has been almost dead last for most of the year. They threw away a ton of points in Australia after the Haas retirement with a couple of laps to go.To add insult to injury, McLaren ended up with 14 points, when they were running out of the points before that.
3rd? Laughable.

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diffuser
224
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:12 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:22 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:35 am


I don't follow what this has to do with my post about PU disparities or performance. DNFs don't change the fact that they are the 6th fastest car.

What are we discussing here? You're saying their problem is "race operations" not performance. They are miles off Aston and Mclaren, nevermind Red Bull. They are frequently getting knocked out in Q2. :?
I think if Alonso was there, they'd be 3ird. Ocon is hot at some tracks and cold at others. Gasly has been getting used to the car and we still haven't seen consistency from him nor do we know if he can be. Dispite the driver BS, they've been 4th fastest most of the year. Only being surpassed by McLaren(in speed) of late. Don't forget McLaren has been almost dead last for most of the year. They threw away a ton of points in Australia after the Haas retirement with a couple of laps to go.To add insult to injury, McLaren ended up with 14 points, when they were running out of the points before that.
3rd? Laughable.
Think about it, who's next to stroll if Alo isn't there? AMR would probably have 110 points and be happy with that.