2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Stu
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:22 am
https://www-formulapassion-it.translate ... r_pto=wapp

This is a bad move, there is now talk of continuously variable aero loading. This needs to be cut back to the idea of regular configuration for corners and low drag configuration for straights.

Continuously variable aero sounds like going from crawling to running sprints with jumping hurdles - completely skipping walking and regular running in the process... Why am I not surprised they found a way to make a good idea very bad...
Totally with you there, Vanja!

Some will push automatic operation to the limit of safety in normal conditions, presumably operating as a consequence of vehicle speed, wind speed & direction, steering angle, throttle, wheel speeds; all presumably with different control mapping available to the driver (another knob on the steering wheel!).

What could possibly go wrong ….
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:22 am
https://www-formulapassion-it.translate ... r_pto=wapp
... continuously variable aero loading .. needs to be cut back to the idea of regular configuration for corners and low drag configuration for straights.
what I have been saying elsewhere
the crucial question is .... regular configuration for corners - or for braking and corners ?

low drag configuration will inevitably be low aero DF configuration
reducing tyre grip and so increasing braking time
increased braking time allows increased energy recovery by regeneration - that's priceless

wuzak
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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With lift-and-coast, won't they want low drag?

And then need progressively more downforce when they start braking?

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:17 am

increased braking time allows increased energy recovery by regeneration - that's priceless
It also, as a nice side effect, increases the chances of overtaking.
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mzso
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:17 am
increased braking time allows increased energy recovery by regeneration - that's priceless
Does it really? Seems doubtful. With less grip you can recover for less time at max regen before the tire starts locking.
Seems like you lose what you gain in time via less traction.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Formula GP2 Scalextric incoming. 🤣

What a farce this sport has become 😳

Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:05 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:17 am
increased braking time allows increased energy recovery by regeneration - that's priceless
Does it really? Seems doubtful. With less grip you can recover for less time at max regen before the tire starts locking.
Seems like you lose what you gain in time via less traction.
yes it does really
imagine that the rear friction brakes have been disconnected (and of course the driver starts braking suitably earlier)
the rear axle brakes at 350 kW
the front brakes at whatever the tyre grip will allow (less because car deceleration is less so weight transfer is less)
this is the setup required for the greatest regeneration regardless of anything else (with rwd MG)
(with 4wd MG the greatest regeneration is by by having no friction braking of either axle)

the increased time regenerating at full power will outweigh the decrease at low road-speed
reduced weight transfer anyway reduces loss of rear axle load and so helps generation

and remember (for a given regeneration power) the required wheel torque increases as road-speed falls
generating 470 hp (350 kW) @ 186 mph (300 kph) demands the equivalent of 950 lb force
generating 470 hp (350 kW) @ 93 mph (150 kph) demands the equivalent of 1880 lb force
(though the gearbox helps the electrics it doesn't help with tyre grip)
falling MG rpm with road-speed (as in front axle regeneration) will degrade electrical efficiency and package

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mclaren111
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:11 pm
Formula GP2 Scalextric incoming. 🤣

What a farce this sport has become 😳

Agree... This electrification nonsense really anoys me endlessly... :x :x

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Stu wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:32 am
What could possibly go wrong ….
Indeed :mrgreen:

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:17 am
what I have been saying elsewhere
the crucial question is .... regular configuration for corners - or for braking and corners ?

low drag configuration will inevitably be low aero DF configuration
reducing tyre grip and so increasing braking time
increased braking time allows increased energy recovery by regeneration - that's priceless
I think they'd want to have it like DRS right now - automatic switch to high-downforce/drag when the brake pedal is pressed to reduce braking time for better lap times. However, longer regeneration does indeed make sense for increasing energy output over one lap, as well as better racing.

With the rules proposed and if they do want to take action with increasing downforce in corners while following another car, the DRS becomes obsolete. We need to remember, the theory behind DRS is to allow the following car to make up for the time it loses in corners before the straight - on the straight. This has shown the tendency towards overtaking overkill, since you don't really require any special skill to overtake like this if you car can follow closely in the corner before the straight. If the rules do include downforce increase in corners when you approach the car ahead to regain this performance you lose in dirty air - you can have a better corner exit than right now, catch a slip stream and show true skill and courage to overtake.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

wuzak
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:31 am
I think they'd want to have it like DRS right now - automatic switch to high-downforce/drag when the brake pedal is pressed to reduce braking time for better lap times. However, longer regeneration does indeed make sense for increasing energy output over one lap, as well as better racing.
Would there be a gradual increase in df/drag rather than the sudden change with DRS?

To recover the most energy they won't want drag to help slow the car.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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wuzak wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:20 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:31 am
I think they'd want to have it like DRS right now - automatic switch to high-downforce/drag when the brake pedal is pressed to reduce braking time for better lap times. However, longer regeneration does indeed make sense for increasing energy output over one lap, as well as better racing.
Would there be a gradual increase in df/drag rather than the sudden change with DRS?

To recover the most energy they won't want drag to help slow the car.
Having the driver be able to select between "long for regen" and "short for racing" would allow for some driver-controlled strategy. I see you're in slow coast to regen so I press the "I want to brake late" button and try for an overtake. But then you'll have harvested more so might be able to use it against me after the corner.

That might make for some on track interest.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

mzso
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:52 am
the increased time regenerating at full power will outweigh the decrease at low road-speed
reduced weight transfer anyway reduces loss of rear axle load and so helps generation
It may outweigh. I see no reason to treat this as fact.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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wuzak wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:20 pm
Would there be a gradual increase in df/drag rather than the sudden change with DRS?

To recover the most energy they won't want drag to help slow the car.
I think it should be a quick transition between 3 configurations - following in corners (high DF), standard (baseline DF, whichever level is needed), straights (low DF/drag).

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:37 pm
Having the driver be able to select between "long for regen" and "short for racing" would allow for some driver-controlled strategy. I see you're in slow coast to regen so I press the "I want to brake late" button and try for an overtake. But then you'll have harvested more so might be able to use it against me after the corner.

That might make for some on track interest.
Feels like this would make too much sense for FIA to implement. :mrgreen: Excellent idea!
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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Continuously variable aero sounds like an awful idea.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:35 pm
Continuously variable aero sounds like an awful idea.
Agreed. And the catastrophic failures could be deadly to drivers and fans.