All kinds of news about F1.

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
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organic wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:29 pm
An interesting track limits solution @ Jerez :-k

Except the design of those kerbs rewards two things - either the driver stays off them altogether (not going to happen) or the driver goes fully over them with outside wheel - straddle the kerb and it becomes an irrelevance.
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organic
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Re: All kinds of news about F1.

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:15 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:29 pm
An interesting track limits solution @ Jerez :-k

Except the design of those kerbs rewards two things - either the driver stays off them altogether (not going to happen) or the driver goes fully over them with outside wheel - straddle the kerb and it becomes an irrelevance.
Straddling this kerb would destroy the floor or even lift the wheels up and just take the car out of control (like an extreme version of the sausage kerb @ sochi). The concrete triangular prisms are about 10cm (!) tall

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Big Tea
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organic wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:21 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:15 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:29 pm
An interesting track limits solution @ Jerez :-k

Except the design of those kerbs rewards two things - either the driver stays off them altogether (not going to happen) or the driver goes fully over them with outside wheel - straddle the kerb and it becomes an irrelevance.
Straddling this kerb would destroy the floor or even lift the wheels up and just take the car out of control (like an extreme version of the sausage kerb @ sochi). The concrete triangular prisms are about 10cm (!) tall
Did the not try something similar at Ricard one time (Baguettes ?) and the teams insisted they remove them?
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stephen
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Image

It looks like Leclerc is going to stay at Ferrari beyond 2023.
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Wouter
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Jon Noble

Exclusive: The FIA is getting tough on flexi wing tricks in #F1 after feeling that some designs are not compliant with the regulations. New procedures in place after this weekend’s #ItalianGP.
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F1 teams face fresh flexi-wing clampdown as tricks revealed

Formula 1 teams face a fresh clampdown on flexi wings after this weekend’s Italian Grand Prix, Autosport can reveal, with the FIA moving to counter tricks it believes are illegal.

As first reported earlier this month, the FIA has been taking a close look at flexible wings over the first half of this season as it believes teams have been pushing the boundaries in terms of what is allowed.

It is understood that several teams, including Aston Martin, were advised to make changes to their front wing designs around the time of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix in a bid to ensure that they did not fall foul of any rule breaches.

But as part of a ramped up effort to stop any attempt at getting around the regulations, the FIA has now issued a formal technical directive outlining what it believes are unacceptable designs with regards to flexible bodywork.
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10513290/
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Just_a_fan
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Wouter wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:23 am
Jon Noble

Exclusive: The FIA is getting tough on flexi wing tricks in #F1 after feeling that some designs are not compliant with the regulations. New procedures in place after this weekend’s #ItalianGP.
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Just to let others know, a dedicated thread about this subject has been opened here: viewtopic.php?t=31249

Hopefully that will keep this thread clear of discussions about the TD.
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organic
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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... nstieg-v1/

AMuS reports that it seems possible for andretti to line up on the grid with only FIA's permission and that FOM would not be able to block it from participating if FIA approves andretti's team application
The FIA checked for six months. Four teams applied for a place in the Formula 1 field. The world association wants to announce the results of its investigation in September. Rumors grew in Monza that Andretti Autosport met all the criteria and would therefore receive a license for 2025.

There are five points on the list of requirements. Each applicant must demonstrate that they have the structures and leadership in place to create a competitive team. The FIA also checks whether the candidates have understood the regulations and whether they have enough money to build a team and then bring it to the start regularly.
Proof is also required that resources such as a factory and tools as well as appropriately qualified employees are available to develop, build and use the cars.

As part of this check, the CVs of the owners, team bosses and technical directors are also examined to prevent key figures from having a criminal past. Finally, the applicant must pass the sustainability check and show that they can operate in a climate-neutral manner within a certain period of time.

Andretti under extreme time pressure.

If Andretti receives the FIA contract, that's only half the battle. Then Formula 1 management deals with the applicant. Andretti needs to show that he brings commercial benefit to the sport and isn't just there to grab a share of the premium pie. Or the intention is to sell the team at a profit after a short period of time.

The planned entry in the 2025 season is extremely ambitious due to the tight schedule, even if Andretti follows Alpine according to the Haas model and has 70 percent of the car built in Enstone. Just checking whether Andretti increases the value of Formula 1 can take six months.

Engine partner General Motors initially has to make do with a label on the Renault engine. Your own engine will not be possible until 2027 at the earliest. Newcomer Audi started development last summer and is just about ready for 2026. The rights holders' biggest fear is that Andretti's project may not be competitive due to the extreme time pressure.

EU directive applies to Formula 1.

Nevertheless, once approved by the FIA, it will not be so easy to reject Andretti. The Formula 1 headquarters must find very good reasons to doubt the licensing granted by the association. In the event of a rejection, Formula 1 faces the same problem that the FIA also has in refusing an applicant a license.

In 2000, the EU Commission forced the FIA to change its sporting law as part of a directive regarding participation in motorsport events. Article 2 states that the participation of a team cannot be prevented or hindered unless the association cites security reasons or has legitimate concerns that such participation would jeopardize fair and orderly proceedings.

With this justification, Andretti obviously cannot be rejected. And if the FIA can't do it, Formula 1 will also have a hard time proving the reasons mentioned. Especially since Andretti is a well-known name in motorsport and engine partner General Motors is a global corporation that should be beyond any doubt. For the FIA, there is also the fear of a long and costly legal dispute if one of the rejected applicants does not accept the test results.

Does the screen stay black?

Theoretically, Liberty could trip up Andretti by not including the team in the existing Concorde agreement or by charging a utopian entry fee in the next deal from 2026. Then the US racing team could take part, but would not participate in the prize money. But that would be a shot that could backfire for Formula 1.


In this case, Andretti would probably have his cars banned from being shown on television. Each participant theoretically has the right to prevent the public broadcast of their intellectual property. This means that the screen would have to remain black at startup or whenever an Andretti car could be seen in the field. But the parties don't want to let it get that far.

For Andretti it's a race against time. The review by the rights holders could drag on until the next Concorde agreement is finalized. In this, a new prize money key and the so-called “dilution fee” would be renegotiated with all teams. This entry fee, which is paid out to the other teams, is to be increased from 200 to 600 million dollars. But that would deter any applicant, even a car company.

The question is whether such a sum can be enforced legally. It would potentially violate Article 2 of the EU directive. An applicant could argue that such a high amount prevents participation from the outset. Formula 1, on the other hand, would claim that a place in the field is worth much more than $600 million. Even the smallest team is currently valued at one billion.

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mwillems
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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:45 am
organic wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:21 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:15 pm

Except the design of those kerbs rewards two things - either the driver stays off them altogether (not going to happen) or the driver goes fully over them with outside wheel - straddle the kerb and it becomes an irrelevance.
Straddling this kerb would destroy the floor or even lift the wheels up and just take the car out of control (like an extreme version of the sausage kerb @ sochi). The concrete triangular prisms are about 10cm (!) tall
Did the not try something similar at Ricard one time (Baguettes ?) and the teams insisted they remove them?
They look like they have the potential to launch the car airborne.
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scuderiabrandon
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stephen wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:36 pm
https://i.postimg.cc/fRQXh2dZ/leclerc-2024.jpg

It looks like Leclerc is going to stay at Ferrari beyond 2023.
His contract only runs out end of 2024

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I wonder if Massa case goes trough if Alonso can sue FIA for not punishing Redbull and Torro Rosso for Brazil 2012.
Team orders were banned back then and yet TR drivers deliberately let Vettel trough 6 times during the race...
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Just_a_fan
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GoranF1 wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:34 pm
I wonder if Massa case goes trough if Alonso can sue FIA for not punishing Redbull and Torro Rosso for Brazil 2012.
Team orders were banned back then and yet TR drivers deliberately let Vettel trough 6 times during the race...
If Massa wins his case, there potentially will be a whole heap of stuff raised about previous years. Don't forget that it's not just the drivers - the teams might see that they lost out on points and thus prize money because of dodgy judgement calls. There's a rat's nest of stuff waiting in the shadows for the Massa outcome.
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Wouter
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Damage amounts driven by the drivers so far. I miss Daniel Ricciardo's crash in Zandvoort.

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Just_a_fan
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F1's social media reach is taking a hit.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/form ... /10526241/
Analysis by Buzz Radar, a social intelligence company, of social media patterns for the last decade has highlighted how the 2023 campaign has triggered a dramatic U-turn in F1's impressive growth in recent years.

In a case study published on Thursday, titled Have we reached Peak F1?, Buzz Radar's analysis suggested that the boom of 2022 – boosted by the dramatic 2021 title fight and new car rules – may well mark a high point of interest in F1 for a while.

Having used a combination of human analysis and AI data to look at F1 on social media over the past decade, which included analysis of 70 million fan posts, it found that the championship had suffered its first decline of interest in a while.
I hope this doesn't result in the FIA / LM coming up with more daft ideas to try to drag in fans.
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organic
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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:24 am
F1's social media reach is taking a hit.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/form ... /10526241/
Analysis by Buzz Radar, a social intelligence company, of social media patterns for the last decade has highlighted how the 2023 campaign has triggered a dramatic U-turn in F1's impressive growth in recent years.

In a case study published on Thursday, titled Have we reached Peak F1?, Buzz Radar's analysis suggested that the boom of 2022 – boosted by the dramatic 2021 title fight and new car rules – may well mark a high point of interest in F1 for a while.

Having used a combination of human analysis and AI data to look at F1 on social media over the past decade, which included analysis of 70 million fan posts, it found that the championship had suffered its first decline of interest in a while.
I hope this doesn't result in the FIA / LM coming up with more daft ideas to try to drag in fans.
Really interesting and nice to have some figures on it. Backs up my feelings regarding how it's mentioned less and there's just less conversation generally

The critical part of the report for me however is regarding trends. It's not damning for the sport or its direction but more that the one team dominance / lack of competition causes this drop in interest. Perhaps a nod to Tombazis should be made for sweeping changes in 2025
The Buzz Radar report states the cause of such a drop off is simply single-team domination, with Red Bull having won all but two races over the past 12 months.

It believes that there is a direct correlation between the closeness of an F1 title fight and how much that entices fans to get engaged – as F1 last had such a drop-off in 2018 when Lewis Hamilton roared to the title.

“2016 was the most talked about season, until 2021, despite all the contributory factors of the Liberty takeover, Drive to Survive, and lockdown, because [Nico] Rosberg and Hamilton were battling closely,” it noted.

Just_a_fan
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Re: All kinds of news about F1.

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organic wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:54 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:24 am
F1's social media reach is taking a hit.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/form ... /10526241/
Analysis by Buzz Radar, a social intelligence company, of social media patterns for the last decade has highlighted how the 2023 campaign has triggered a dramatic U-turn in F1's impressive growth in recent years.

In a case study published on Thursday, titled Have we reached Peak F1?, Buzz Radar's analysis suggested that the boom of 2022 – boosted by the dramatic 2021 title fight and new car rules – may well mark a high point of interest in F1 for a while.

Having used a combination of human analysis and AI data to look at F1 on social media over the past decade, which included analysis of 70 million fan posts, it found that the championship had suffered its first decline of interest in a while.
I hope this doesn't result in the FIA / LM coming up with more daft ideas to try to drag in fans.
Really interesting and nice to have some figures on it. Backs up my feelings regarding how it's mentioned less and there's just less conversation generally

The critical part of the report for me however is regarding trends. It's not damning for the sport or its direction but more that the one team dominance / lack of competition causes this drop in interest. Perhaps a nod to Tombazis should be made for sweeping changes in 2025
The Buzz Radar report states the cause of such a drop off is simply single-team domination, with Red Bull having won all but two races over the past 12 months.

It believes that there is a direct correlation between the closeness of an F1 title fight and how much that entices fans to get engaged – as F1 last had such a drop-off in 2018 when Lewis Hamilton roared to the title.

“2016 was the most talked about season, until 2021, despite all the contributory factors of the Liberty takeover, Drive to Survive, and lockdown, because [Nico] Rosberg and Hamilton were battling closely,” it noted.
I do wonder if some of the blip was the DTS crowd, etc., who having seen the "exciting stuff" in the DTS shows realised that day-to-day F1 isn't like that at all, and they've become bored and moved on to the next "exciting must-see thing".

F1 is not, typically, like 2021. Yes, there are times when there is a close season but on the whole it's generally much more season-long chess game stuff. And if you're not interested in the nuances of the sport (having arrived for the "OMG, so exciting!" highlights) then you're going to get bored and move on.

As fans, most of us have been following F1 for decades (from the mid 80s for me, for example) and so the season-long chess game is second nature. Yes, even we can get bored at times, but we know that stuff changes and so we stick with it. If you're a newcomer and thought that every season is like 2021, you're going to be disappointed.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.