2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:44 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:27 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:40 pm


Merc was reported to have made double digit gains in the off season and they also resolved their high altitude weakness. As for Honda, they made continued refinement of the ERS system.

I won't give up on this :lol:
By definition, ERS is limited to 160HP, so your gains are gonna be on efficiency. Also, they're biggest impediment to making any changes is that Alpine has to approve them as "reliability" updates. The FIA really depend on the PU Manufacturers to police each other. So you're changes there were probably software related. Why would Honda be taking $$$ from the 2026 project to help RBR who dropped them? Remember Honda owns the IP. That's hardware and software. RBR can't touch that PU. That and Honda moved everybody out of the project in 2021. They brought some back for the 2026 project but alot of the people have changed. They, like most, just have maintaining engineering staff left on the current PU. Pretty sure that the PU budget is capped now. Just don't remember when the CAP went into effect. If it is in effect, spending money from the 2026 project to make improvements on a dead project isn't wise. That's probably why Alpine want the fuel increase, it doesn't steal resources from the 2026 project.
We have discussed this at length! The manufacturers have been driving london buses through the regulations and Renault approved it! It's not all about 2026. Manufacturers still want to win NOW. Remember that the engine development is budget capped and manufacturers had more resources than that already:

Honda is improving the PU for next year, direct from Honda: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/239287/h ... -2024.html

This is direct from Koji Watanabe at Honda on improvements that Ferrari and Mercedes made last winter and Honda will again make improvement for RB in 2024.
"In terms of power and performance, we may not improve anything, but in other areas we can also make strides with this engine. At Ferrari, for example, they have developed the engine considerably and Mercedes' ERS system (Energy Recovery, ed.) is also very strong. We will also improve our engine for next year in terms of its longevity. So there is definitely something in the pipeline," Watanabe informed.
RB pays Honda for services. That's why Honda still work for them. Also, what Honda learn now on the track benefits 2026. RB is helping them as much as they help RB.
When you buy the PU from Honda it comes with support. They do say "In terms of power and performance, we may not improve anything". This in my opinion is "Maintaining" engineering. There is no huge R&D behind it. What they can do is limited.

Notice the words they use "considerably", "make strides", "something in the pipeline". Next thing they gonna say is "it's gonna be beautiful, it's gonna be perfect!".
Last edited by diffuser on Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:20 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:28 pm


PU bad at altitude imo.
Alonso finished 5th last year. Ocon 8th.
2022 PU was fine. It's the 2023 PU that doesn't have as much as the others.
I recall it blowing up on a somewhat regular basis! That doesn't seem fine to me, even if power was improved compared to 2021.

In any case, it looks Alpine F1 Team are going to miss their target of 4th in the 2023 WCC. They are however safely in 6th, likely to finish no worse, but no better either.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:27 pm
That's probably why Alpine want the fuel increase, it doesn't steal resources from the 2026 project.
Wasn't the 2022 power unit supposed to put Renault on the level of the other units or better? Vaulting Renault up to status of benchmark unit that outperforms all the others (and of course maintaining this benchmark status in 2023, 2024, etc by correctly utilising the reliability upgrade provisions)?

In any case, it is what it is now and Enstone must produce a better chassis to compensate!

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:53 am
diffuser wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:27 pm
That's probably why Alpine want the fuel increase, it doesn't steal resources from the 2026 project.
Wasn't the 2022 power unit supposed to put Renault on the level of the other units or better? Vaulting Renault up to status of benchmark unit that outperforms all the others (and of course maintaining this benchmark status in 2023, 2024, etc by correctly utilising the reliability upgrade provisions)?

In any case, it is what it is now and Enstone must produce a better chassis to compensate!
I think what RBR found with Renault, has been true with Alpine. They're goal has always been to be in F1, not to win. They say all the right things but financially haven't put their money where their mouth is. They're PU budget has lagged far behind everyone else since 2011, they'renot catching tomorrow. They've done well getting it to where it is.

There is now a CAP, they will not get out spent by hundreds of millions of dollars a year, I would have started putting everything into 2026 from jump. The CAP is a yearly finacial restriction. It's hard to catchup once you're behind.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Interesting comments by Gasly during the race start, alluding to Ocon spending more energy blocking him than other cars. Where have I heard that before?

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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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any idea why Gasly's PU was completely changed between the sprint and the race? Did they wait till Sunday to mount the best available engine? It certainly didn't look like it was lacking power, at least.

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Jambier
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Very happy for GAS starting to be the number 1 driver of the team.

OCO still being as usual too agressive, in particular with team mate.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:01 pm
Very happy for GAS starting to be the number 1 driver of the team.

OCO still being as usual too agressive, in particular with team mate.
He'd be a solid #2 if he could embrace the team roll.

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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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search wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:35 am
any idea why Gasly's PU was completely changed between the sprint and the race? Did they wait till Sunday to mount the best available engine? It certainly didn't look like it was lacking power, at least.
still haven't found anything about it, but Mercedes said that they were using their oldest units for the two "thin-air tracks" Mexico & Brazil. So I assume it was (supposed to be, in Gasly's case) the same for most others, including Alpine.

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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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(Italian) https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... /10546790/

Article is interesting by itself but if you take a look at the third picture, when you click on it, its description says:

"Photographer: Renault F1
Date: 4 Oct 2018
Series: Formula 1
Event: Visit to Renault headquarters in Enstone"
Look at the top left screen - that's rFactor! No way! Must be a modified version, for sure

Image

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Apexseal157
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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gasly got p6 in q1, great lap!

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Apexseal157
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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P4! outta nowhere

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Apexseal157
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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P5!!! to be P4!!!! crazy stuff in a car that people thought wouldn't get out of q3

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organic
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Apexseal157 wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:03 am
P5!!! to be P4!!!! crazy stuff in a car that people thought wouldn't get out of q3
Given how power sensitive this track should be.. the cold conditions suggest that maybe alpine's main issue is engine performance when it gets hot?

Gasly once again showing brilliant performance. He's been one of the best drivers on the grid in the 2nd half of the season.