Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Hello everyone, I am translating a book for some friends here in Italy who can't speak english.

In a description focused on the difference between the Lotus 72 radiators and the McLaren M23 radiators,
the author describes the Lotus ones as different since they were 'hip-radiators'.

What is the precise meaning of that expression 'hip-radiators'? Of course i know what the standalone 'hip' word means (the anatomical part of our body) but i cannot associate its meaning to the radiators and especially in comparison with those on the McLaren since they both were 'sidepods-based cars'.

Could you kindly explain it to me in detail in order to translate it properly?
Thanks a lot for your help :)

TimW
TimW
36
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

I may be wrong, but I think both use side radiators in a similar position.

I'd guess the Lotus is just described as different as being the innovator, because it was it was the first car to have them on the side. So probably not different from the McLaren, but different from the previous generation of cars.

User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

TimW wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:33 pm
I may be wrong, but I think both use side radiators in a similar position.

I'd guess the Lotus is just described as different as being the innovator, because it was it was the first car to have them on the side. So probably not different from the McLaren, but different from the previous generation of cars.
Thank you. But the description of the innovation of the Lotus is already there in the book.
I can't really see why they use "hip-radiators" for the Lotus.
Could it be about the way they were actually mounted on the chassis? i don't know...

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
Moderator
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Without really looking at it - I would say they were both "hip" radiators and that M23 was a copy of the 72

Have you seen this? https://www.connectingrod.it/Historical ... o_eng.html

Ref the precise definition - it is that the rads are on the hips/waistline of the car - rather than on the nose as was the case in the previous generation cars. You are quite right in your understanding.
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:45 pm
Without really looking at it - I would say they were both "hip" radiators and that M23 was a copy of the 72

Have you seen this? https://www.connectingrod.it/Historical ... o_eng.html

Ref the precise definition - it is that the rads are on the hips/waistline of the car - rather than on the nose as was the case in the previous generation cars. You are quite right in your understanding.
Thanks to you too. My understanding of the layout is not a problem, i mean i get the concept, it is very simple and i know F1 history from a technical point of view... i really need to understand how to translate it...

The book is the John Barnard biography and here is the excerpt:
"The M23’s side-mounted radiator installation, however, differed very significantly from the Lotus approach. Whereas the 72 had its so-called hip-radiators mounted in separate sidepods attached to a monocoque of cockpit width, Coppuck’s monocoque extended the entire width of the car, forming the sidepod areas as well. In making the sidepods part of the chassis itself, torsional stiffness was improved."

User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

So possibily it could just simply mean 'side-mounted-radiators', is that right?

mcdenife
mcdenife
1
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:21 pm
Location: Timbuck2

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Yes, I think that could be right, ie side mouted radiators. The link below describes it as 'hip-mounted' radiators.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... -car-ever/
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

User avatar
SiLo
130
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Giando wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:06 pm
CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:45 pm
Without really looking at it - I would say they were both "hip" radiators and that M23 was a copy of the 72

Have you seen this? https://www.connectingrod.it/Historical ... o_eng.html

Ref the precise definition - it is that the rads are on the hips/waistline of the car - rather than on the nose as was the case in the previous generation cars. You are quite right in your understanding.
Thanks to you too. My understanding of the layout is not a problem, i mean i get the concept, it is very simple and i know F1 history from a technical point of view... i really need to understand how to translate it...

The book is the John Barnard biography and here is the excerpt:
"The M23’s side-mounted radiator installation, however, differed very significantly from the Lotus approach. Whereas the 72 had its so-called hip-radiators mounted in separate sidepods attached to a monocoque of cockpit width, Coppuck’s monocoque extended the entire width of the car, forming the sidepod areas as well. In making the sidepods part of the chassis itself, torsional stiffness was improved."
Basically the Lotus 72 had them stuck on the side, the M23 had them mounted inside.
Felipe Baby!

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
Moderator
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Agree with the above. 72 was a slim chassis that had the rads mounted there "in seperate sidepods", the M23 then was designed to have the rads there from the off - so better integration with the main chassis/monocoque.

An interesting thread :)
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

Farnborough
Farnborough
88
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

My understanding of the description is that the 72 is similar to current cars....a monocoque for the driver and main stresses with the radiator supported outside that structure and effectively cantilevered off the principle monocoque. Remove the radiator and the monocoque would be visible as bare narrow structure.

Coppock 23 with the full monocoque extended out to the widest part of the car....the radiator then mounted within that periphery. Remove the radiator and the monocoque would be unchanged in it's width there.

Hip looks slightly clumsy...pannier likely describes the 72 better as an addition hung onto the outside of the monocoque, a little like bags on a horse or motorcycle.

User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Thank you all, i now can see how to translate it correctly in italian.

oh btw. reviewing the book after a few years and then reading it again is great.
If you haven't read it yet i strongly recommend it!

Regards

Farnborough
Farnborough
88
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Its a good book, isn't it.

I'm part way through for the first time and really enjoy it.

One of my favourite cars, the Ferrari 63* series from Barnard arrival at the team.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
48
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

CMSMJ1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:38 pm
Agree with the above. 72 was a slim chassis that had the rads mounted there "in seperate sidepods", the M23 then was designed to have the rads there from the off - so better integration with the main chassis/monocoque.

An interesting thread :)
Yes. The Lotus 72 of 1970 had the rads mounted inside separate-from-the tub sidepods, but by 1973 because of new side-impact rules the sidepods formed part of the tub.

User avatar
Giando
93
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Farnborough wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:49 pm
Its a good book, isn't it.

I'm part way through for the first time and really enjoy it.

One of my favourite cars, the Ferrari 63* series from Barnard arrival at the team.
Those chapters about the first Ferrari experience are pure joy to read...
truly an amazing story, also filled with politics, mysteries and unexpected twists!

User avatar
SiLo
130
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Language issue: what are hip-radiators (Lotus 72)?

Post

Farnborough wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:49 pm
Its a good book, isn't it.

I'm part way through for the first time and really enjoy it.

One of my favourite cars, the Ferrari 63* series from Barnard arrival at the team.
Do you have a physical copy or is it on Kindle? I want to get a physical copy but it seems it's hard to find!
Felipe Baby!