2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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mendis
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:03 am

If Vagas has shown anything, is that a simple layout is better for the show.

Abu Dhabi would be lot better if the section between turns 12 and 15 were gone.
While it's important to have great racing like we witnessed in Vegas, but equally, circuits should be technically challenging for both cars and drivers with a combination of aero and mechanical challenges. Otherwise it's like NASCAR, going around in circles.

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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mendis wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:21 am
FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:03 am

If Vagas has shown anything, is that a simple layout is better for the show.

Abu Dhabi would be lot better if the section between turns 12 and 15 were gone.
While it's important to have great racing like we witnessed in Vegas, but equally, circuits should be technically challenging for both cars and drivers with a combination of aero and mechanical challenges. Otherwise it's like NASCAR, going around in circles.

I agree with that completely. But Abu Dhabi is probably the worst circuit we have on the calendar (along with Singapore). F1 wouldn't be loosing any of the technical challenge in any of the other 22 venues if Abu Dhabi goes simple.

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search
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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search wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:17 am
I understood it more as a "how much power is left" kind of question. No one will take a penalty in Abu Dhabi anyway, but some will have better engines left than others. The table I posted can give an indication at least.
I forgot that Tsunoda and Hülkenberg both retired with PU issues late in the Las Vegas race. In the interview right after Tsunoda said "I hope it's not the engine", so sounds like they planed to use it in Abu Dhabi as well.

CHT
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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search wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:00 am
CHT wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:48 pm
Wouter wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:06 pm

.
And Carlos Sainz got a 3rd ES on Nov 17.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... %20now.pdf
22 races with 4 engines, reckon some engines will be on their 6th race this weekend.
no idea which engine exactly was used at what race, but this shows when they were introduced, at least:

https://i.imgur.com/PfR45ML.png

After Interlagos, Mercedes said that they were using older units for the "high altitude" races, so I guess that will be the case for most.
Gasly engine has lasted 14 races?

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organic
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:07 pm
search wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:00 am
CHT wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:48 pm


22 races with 4 engines, reckon some engines will be on their 6th race this weekend.
no idea which engine exactly was used at what race, but this shows when they were introduced, at least:

https://i.imgur.com/PfR45ML.png

After Interlagos, Mercedes said that they were using older units for the "high altitude" races, so I guess that will be the case for most.
Gasly engine has lasted 14 races?
Taking your 4th set of components doesn't mean the first, second, third sets are toast already. They rotate them around to manage wear & optimize. Oldest/weakest engines used for FPs, strongest engines used for power sensitive tracks (eg Monza). Seems that teams tend to use old engines at the high altitude tracks as well

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Mogster
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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mendis wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:21 am
FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:03 am

If Vagas has shown anything, is that a simple layout is better for the show.

Abu Dhabi would be lot better if the section between turns 12 and 15 were gone.
While it's important to have great racing like we witnessed in Vegas, but equally, circuits should be technically challenging for both cars and drivers with a combination of aero and mechanical challenges. Otherwise it's like NASCAR, going around in circles.
I think there’s plenty of room on the calendar for different types of circuit. In fact it’s necessary and should be encouraged. If you have a season like this with single team domination then you need to throw a legitimate curve ball into the mix to shake things up.

One of the good things about Indycar has always been the variety of venues.

CHT
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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organic wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:17 pm
CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:07 pm
search wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:00 am


no idea which engine exactly was used at what race, but this shows when they were introduced, at least:

https://i.imgur.com/PfR45ML.png

After Interlagos, Mercedes said that they were using older units for the "high altitude" races, so I guess that will be the case for most.
Gasly engine has lasted 14 races?
Taking your 4th set of components doesn't mean the first, second, third sets are toast already. They rotate them around to manage wear & optimize. Oldest/weakest engines used for FPs, strongest engines used for power sensitive tracks (eg Monza). Seems that teams tend to use old engines at the high altitude tracks as well
I am aware they can reuse the earlier engine for later races, but Gasly case (unless there is some mistake in the chart) his 4th engine has already done 14 races. Perhaps engine no. 3 was smoked after Barcelona? If he can do 15 races with engine 4, that will be amazing.

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Paa
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:16 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:17 pm
CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:07 pm

Gasly engine has lasted 14 races?
Taking your 4th set of components doesn't mean the first, second, third sets are toast already. They rotate them around to manage wear & optimize. Oldest/weakest engines used for FPs, strongest engines used for power sensitive tracks (eg Monza). Seems that teams tend to use old engines at the high altitude tracks as well
I am aware they can reuse the earlier engine for later races, but Gasly case (unless there is some mistake in the chart) his 4th engine has already done 14 races. Perhaps engine no. 3 was smoked after Barcelona? If he can do 15 races with engine 4, that will be amazing.
The point is that just because they introduced 4th engine 14 races ago, it doesn't mean that they have run all 14 races on it. They could have easily rotated it with engine #1 #2 and #3.
One of the benefits of introducing all engines early is that if you have to start from the back or from the box for whatever reason, then you can basically add 1 fresh engine to the pool for free.

Earlier this was not a very good tactics as teams waited for their engine upgrades before introducing new units. But now that developments are frozen, there is basically no real drawbacks of introducing an engine earlier than it really needed.

CHT
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Paa wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:49 pm
CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:16 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:17 pm


Taking your 4th set of components doesn't mean the first, second, third sets are toast already. They rotate them around to manage wear & optimize. Oldest/weakest engines used for FPs, strongest engines used for power sensitive tracks (eg Monza). Seems that teams tend to use old engines at the high altitude tracks as well
I am aware they can reuse the earlier engine for later races, but Gasly case (unless there is some mistake in the chart) his 4th engine has already done 14 races. Perhaps engine no. 3 was smoked after Barcelona? If he can do 15 races with engine 4, that will be amazing.
The point is that just because they introduced 4th engine 14 races ago, it doesn't mean that they have run all 14 races on it. They could have easily rotated it with engine #1 #2 and #3.
One of the benefits of introducing all engines early is that if you have to start from the back or from the box for whatever reason, then you can basically add 1 fresh engine to the pool for free.

Earlier this was not a very good tactics as teams waited for their engine upgrades before introducing new units. But now that developments are frozen, there is basically no real drawbacks of introducing an engine earlier than it really needed.
Now it is clear. I mistook it's as engine number instead of the total number used

ThijsMuis
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Wouter
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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The Power of Dreams!

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organic
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Rest of the rear-wings



Might be a little smoother now


Farnborough
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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CHT wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 am
Paa wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:49 pm
CHT wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:16 pm


I am aware they can reuse the earlier engine for later races, but Gasly case (unless there is some mistake in the chart) his 4th engine has already done 14 races. Perhaps engine no. 3 was smoked after Barcelona? If he can do 15 races with engine 4, that will be amazing.
The point is that just because they introduced 4th engine 14 races ago, it doesn't mean that they have run all 14 races on it. They could have easily rotated it with engine #1 #2 and #3.
One of the benefits of introducing all engines early is that if you have to start from the back or from the box for whatever reason, then you can basically add 1 fresh engine to the pool for free.

Earlier this was not a very good tactics as teams waited for their engine upgrades before introducing new units. But now that developments are frozen, there is basically no real drawbacks of introducing an engine earlier than it really needed.
Now it is clear. I mistook it's as engine number instead of the total number used
I hadn't really thought of it by extending that projection before.

So.......theoretical position of (in the extreme) cycle all the season's power train components through in first two races by running a set on Friday, another set on Saturday/Sunday to have them all arrive in the pool of use, then any start from pits future race would allow a new complete set to be brought in "Free" of penalty......should the need arise.
Perhaps if a team has made a complete dog's dinner of a sprint weekend, then wants a different setup on for raceday :D

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organic
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Farnborough wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:27 am
CHT wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 am
Paa wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:49 pm


The point is that just because they introduced 4th engine 14 races ago, it doesn't mean that they have run all 14 races on it. They could have easily rotated it with engine #1 #2 and #3.
One of the benefits of introducing all engines early is that if you have to start from the back or from the box for whatever reason, then you can basically add 1 fresh engine to the pool for free.

Earlier this was not a very good tactics as teams waited for their engine upgrades before introducing new units. But now that developments are frozen, there is basically no real drawbacks of introducing an engine earlier than it really needed.
Now it is clear. I mistook it's as engine number instead of the total number used
I hadn't really thought of it by extending that projection before.

So.......theoretical position of (in the extreme) cycle all the season's power train components through in first two races by running a set on Friday, another set on Saturday/Sunday to have them all arrive in the pool of use, then any start from pits future race would allow a new complete set to be brought in "Free" of penalty......should the need arise.
Perhaps if a team has made a complete dog's dinner of a sprint weekend, then wants a different setup on for raceday :D
That's pretty much what happened with Leclerc with his issues with both ES units at Bahrain. When the car didn't work for him in quali at Canada - only the 8th GP of the year - he could already take extra PU components with very little price

Farnborough
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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And LH & MB at Belgian GP a few years back....a whole "stash" of power train commissioning there.