2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Cassius
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The speed trap was positioned in the braking zone, so this is more a ranking of late brakers.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Cassius wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 3:23 pm
The speed trap was positioned in the braking zone, so this is more a ranking of late brakers.
It was obvious in FP3 it was going to be the case. I dont understand why FIA didn't just move it 100m back and then we can get some useful data. As it stands this measuring point is useless.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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If I didn't know any better, I'd say Mercedes had a real "party mode" on the ICE side which they were able to use because of the weather.

Image


The Merc PU has probably been the most up and down this year. More power than anyone in the cold of Las Vegas, but completely nerfed and neutralized in the hot conditions of Hungary.

Luscion
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm
The Merc PU has probably been the most up and down this year. More power than anyone in the cold of Las Vegas, but completely nerfed and neutralized in the hot conditions of Hungary.
Does this include the teams they supply as well or is it just a Merc thing, possibly due to the zero pods

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Luscion wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:34 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm
The Merc PU has probably been the most up and down this year. More power than anyone in the cold of Las Vegas, but completely nerfed and neutralized in the hot conditions of Hungary.
Does this include the teams they supply as well or is it just a Merc thing, possibly due to the zero pods
I think it's two-fold. Each customer may have to do different levels of cooling management in the races based on how effective their cooling systems are (Merc is one of the worst) but also generally the Merc PU has a congested layout due to zero-pod tight packaging requirements so it gets hotter more readily than some other PUs. Frigid temps in Vegas must have made them really happy. Hungary killed them.

DoctorRadio
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm
If I didn't know any better, I'd say Mercedes had a real "party mode" on the ICE side which they were able to use because of the weather.

https://i.postimg.cc/q72vJZLC/image.png


The Merc PU has probably been the most up and down this year. More power than anyone in the cold of Las Vegas, but completely nerfed and neutralized in the hot conditions of Hungary.
If you compare to Lap 16 of Leclerc in qualifying the difference on the straights as a whole is negligible (for some reason the last lap in Q3 of Leclerc was one of the “slowest” among his on the straights), Ferrari still having the upper hand in acceleration until 290-300 (where power is more important than drag); no doubt Mercedes PU was a step faster than previous weekends though, even if I had already noticed some interesting speed traces from Mclaren at Suzuka and Interlagos.

Henri
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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w15 needs to find 1+ sec to compete with the rb20.. impressive from Lewis p3 with the 3rd fastest car.. george and Lewis need a competitive car like w12 to fight for a title

j_ste
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Henri wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:21 am
w15 needs to find 1+ sec to compete with the rb20.. impressive from Lewis p3 with the 3rd fastest car.. george and Lewis need a competitive car like w12 to fight for a title
For most of that, I'd imagine McLaren are 2nd but their first 7 races were very slow to bump them down to 5th

Hammerfist
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm
If I didn't know any better, I'd say Mercedes had a real "party mode" on the ICE side which they were able to use because of the weather.

https://i.postimg.cc/q72vJZLC/image.png


The Merc PU has probably been the most up and down this year. More power than anyone in the cold of Las Vegas, but completely nerfed and neutralized in the hot conditions of Hungary.
They also ran max downforce in Hungary. And they did get pole in Hungary and imo were the second best car in the race. So no, I don't think you can call that being neutralized.

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214270
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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j_ste wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:14 am
Henri wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:21 am
w15 needs to find 1+ sec to compete with the rb20.. impressive from Lewis p3 with the 3rd fastest car.. george and Lewis need a competitive car like w12 to fight for a title
For most of that, I'd imagine McLaren are 2nd but their first 7 races were very slow to bump them down to 5th
In the first half, Merc no more than 3rd best, in the 2nd half no more than 3rd best again (prob around 4th in fairness).

Coming in 3rd, drivers/constructors is a pretty satisfactory achievement all things considered; let’s hope AD is positive.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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r85 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:46 pm
Toto said it helps the team more if they finish P2 in the standings because of the prize money. Besides, Mercedes didn't exactly utilize that extra wind tunnel time properly last winter even though they finished 3rd...
If Wolff would like Mercedes GP to be back in championship contention, as opposed to a strong upper midfield team, does he have a plan to make it happen? "Wait for Allison to do his magic?" :)

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:43 pm
If Wolff would like Mercedes GP to be back in championship contention, as opposed to a strong upper midfield team, does he have a plan to make it happen? "Wait for Allison to do his magic?" :)
Toto never really did anything in that team, how could he start now? Brawn built the team up after Honda left, PU department got the unlimited budget for hybrid PUs, Ecclestone and Lauda got Lewis in. Now that the chassis is once again the deciding factor, they are stuck as the 3rd best car for the second season and it will take more than Allison to improve to 2nd best car, let alone the best.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It would be interesting to correct that for McLaren who brought the upgrade in austria. Definitely a bit skewed given they were firm last before that upgrade. Austria onwards would be a decent bet.

Maybe doing it driver relative would be better? Who knows how they are calculating these times? As in you have RB with max 1 and checo p5 you average out p2.5. So if one driver considerably better and one underperforms is it messing with the team average?

Merc need a LOT of time to catch up to red bull/max. I’d dare say .750 to bring a decent challenge.

They probably better off doing a 2021 style - max the engine out and take the 5 spot penalty.

I think Vanja sums it up, as others have previously. This is the single most biggest time Toto needs to bring the team forwards. There is not one single excuse they can use for the change from W14 into W15. Especially when they have hinted at all these certain fundamental changes that need to be addressed

r85
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:43 pm
r85 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:46 pm
Toto said it helps the team more if they finish P2 in the standings because of the prize money. Besides, Mercedes didn't exactly utilize that extra wind tunnel time properly last winter even though they finished 3rd...
If Wolff would like Mercedes GP to be back in championship contention, as opposed to a strong upper midfield team, does he have a plan to make it happen? "Wait for Allison to do his magic?" :)
Yeah pretty much. They've fired whoever they had to fire, dealt with whatever data correlation issues they had last year and have been using the W14 as a development platform for W15. So far whatever Mercedes has been doing looks promising for next year.

Luscion
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:24 pm
It would be interesting to correct that for McLaren who brought the upgrade in austria. Definitely a bit skewed given they were firm last before that upgrade. Austria onwards would be a decent bet.

Maybe doing it driver relative would be better? Who knows how they are calculating these times? As in you have RB with max 1 and checo p5 you average out p2.5. So if one driver considerably better and one underperforms is it messing with the team average?

Merc need a LOT of time to catch up to red bull/max. I’d dare say .750 to bring a decent challenge.

They probably better off doing a 2021 style - max the engine out and take the 5 spot penalty.

I think Vanja sums it up, as others have previously. This is the single most biggest time Toto needs to bring the team forwards. There is not one single excuse they can use for the change from W14 into W15. Especially when they have hinted at all these certain fundamental changes that need to be addressed
I think there's a couple things going for Merc this season. Them realizing how important suspension is and giving the W15 bespoke suspension, finally upgrading their pit stop equipment, their wind tunnel and on track data correlating this year, every upgrade they brought this season did what it should have which is a 180 from last year. This new floor which was a test to see if they were going in the right direction works and will most likely be improved upon during the winter, reportedly no longer having to sacrifice engine power due to the zero pod limitations with the new concepta and said that their focus for next year is performance as apposed to the last two years where they were just solving one problem after the next. They know what they need to do to get to the top again but whether they can find the laptime to challenge the RB20 is another story, guess we'll see end of February