2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:20 pm
Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.
Probably has a front end this time which he won't be happy about :mrgreen:

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:20 pm
Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.
Very vague statement of course, but I'd say they were definitely aiming for a very different handling. The question remains - is it different in a good direction, or a bad one? :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

CHT
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:03 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:20 pm
Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.
Very vague statement of course, but I'd say they were definitely aiming for a very different handling. The question remains - is it different in a good direction, or a bad one? :mrgreen:
Young and hungry drivers are better at tweaking and adapting driving styles to suit the engineering concept..

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.

Sevach
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:03 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:20 pm
Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.
Very vague statement of course, but I'd say they were definitely aiming for a very different handling. The question remains - is it different in a good direction, or a bad one? :mrgreen:
Compared to 2022 i'd say Ferrari went in a Sainz friendly direction for 23, can't imagine them doubling down and making the car even more understeery...

However the point that the SF23 was different in the sim is not to be ignored.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:23 pm
The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.
I had second thoughts about writing this point, which is definitely valid. However, they did do a lot of corellation this year and it was often reported they are putting a lot of effort. And they did make some progress with the car. So I honestly expect project 676 to be closer to initial expectations than this year's 675.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:38 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:23 pm
The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.
I had second thoughts about writing this point, which is definitely valid. However, they did do a lot of corellation this year and it was often reported they are putting a lot of effort. And they did make some progress with the car. So I honestly expect project 676 to be closer to initial expectations than this year's 675.
Would be hard to do worse. That their expectations with the Suzuka upgrade seemed to match up with exactly what it delivered was enough of an indication that I think they are headed in the right direction. Their understanding of tyres has only improved (which also remain the same for next year) as well

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:41 pm
Would be hard to do worse. That their expectations with the Suzuka upgrade seemed to match up with exactly what it delivered was enough of an indication that I think they are headed in the right direction. Their understanding of tyres has only improved (which also remain the same for next year) as well
Agreed
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:23 pm
The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.
Unfortunately, we are not entirely sure that this is the case.
Duchessa (during a live on Twitch with Roberto Chinchero, Motorsport.it writer and Sky Italy commentator) said that when Ferrari put the whole car together (even before testing, in the wind tunnel / simulator) the results were not good. The tests just confirmed the car was not good. Vasseur added that they knew the car wasn't doing well during the 3 days of test, but they were still hopeful that through setup work and upgrades they could challenge RB in some tracks. So this point is not very clear...

Did they have correlation issues during the development? Or simply they thought they had recovered enough DWF to be competitive with the improved straight line speed?

One thing I hope they didn't expect at this point is the extremely understeery "nature" of the car.

In any event, Sainz said that he'd like some characteristics (90 degrees corner, straight line speed, how it goes over the kerbs, braking) of this car on the next one, but he is not sure if that is going to be case.
Duchessa earlier reported that Ferrari's goal is to retain these characteristics, while improving everywhere else.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:14 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:23 pm
The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.
Unfortunately, we are not entirely sure that this is the case.
Duchessa (during a live on Twitch with Roberto Chinchero, Motorsport.it writer and Sky Italy commentator) said that when Ferrari put the whole car together (even before testing, in the wind tunnel / simulator) the results were not good. The tests just confirmed the car was not good. Vasseur added that they knew the car wasn't doing well during the 3 days of test, but they were still hopeful that through setup work and upgrades they could challenge RB in some tracks. So this point is not very clear...
Interesting, I did not see the Duchessa update (yet) but i remember that at the beginning of the season, this was being reported by formula.uno:
“From our information, the numbers from the Ferrari simulator are extremely positive, with highly-qualified sources revealing that the 2023 car is over one second faster than last year’s machine,” reported Formu1a.uno’s Piergiuseppe Donadoni.

“This is an intriguing estimation from the Maranello camp, considering the 2023 regulations introduce significant variations in terms of overall aerodynamic load.”

At some point there was a simulator car which was quite fast. I thought that only in Bahrain (or Fiorano shakedown) did they discover uncurable high speed understeer as I can't see how they could learn anything before then, unless someone in the factory realized the wrong inputs were fed to the simulator...Otherwise this car could not have possibly been 1 second faster than the F1-75 in such a state. There must have been a correlation breakdown somewhere.

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MichaelFerrari
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Iirc at some point it was said that the technicians were quite satisfied with the numbers they achieved in the simulations, but the issue was that the performance targets were just set too low compared to others, ie rbr.
I reckon it's very difficult to understand what the real problem is/was with this project, so many contradicting stories.
Let's just hope inside the team they have a clear picture now finally, however I doubt that, if history is any indication... 😢

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MichaelFerrari
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:20 pm
Sainz said that the 2024 car handling is quite different from the SF 23 in the simulator.
Many good things were said about the SF23 last winter also, better be careful with that kind of statement.

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MichaelFerrari
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:41 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:38 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:23 pm
The problem is that the SF23 was also very different in the simulator. This season would have looked so different if the SF23 was anything like it had been simulated to be.

They have to show up in Bahrain with a well correlated car.
I had second thoughts about writing this point, which is definitely valid. However, they did do a lot of corellation this year and it was often reported they are putting a lot of effort. And they did make some progress with the car. So I honestly expect project 676 to be closer to initial expectations than this year's 675.
Would be hard to do worse. That their expectations with the Suzuka upgrade seemed to match up with exactly what it delivered was enough of an indication that I think they are headed in the right direction. Their understanding of tyres has only improved (which also remain the same for next year) as well
Regarding their tyre understanding improvement, I'd wait a few races in 2024 to make a judgment.
Austin wasn't that long ago, right? What a brilliant idea to go for hards and turn a pole into P6 😒

CHT
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Ferrari drivers are looking more cheerful and optimistic these days as compared to first half of the season. And I would have reason to believe the team must have a good ballpark for 2024 which will be their first car under Vasseur.

will be great for the team if they can finish the season by beating merx to P2 wcc this weekend.