Red Bull RB19

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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organic
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:34 pm
I do not like where this is going :lol:

I was fascinated by this grid:

https://i.postimg.cc/cLN8yfJc/image.png

I suspect RB has done a thorough analysis of this behaviour and the optimization of the spacing and pin shape. These circular rods seem to have the most cooling performance.

https://i.postimg.cc/kDPDCd75/image.png
Some better images to follow up on this topic that was discussed here a little while ago. RB's unique brake caliper..

Still unclear if these are microtubes or pins, and whether this is an internal structure that a housing would encase as suggested by @Stu

Some input from Henk_v again on the topic especially would be massively welcome..

Image

Image

Images from Mateusz Mróz

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:41 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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As much I'd like to be of help, I can't without massive speculation.

Pin-fin heat exchangers are very common. I designed a few myself and if my memory serves me well I elaborated a bit on them (not sure when we discussed this)

One thing thats an obvious advantage is stress. Any cooling fin will be, by intent, cooler at the tip thin at the base. That might either stress the caliper mandating a heavier caliper or unwanted warpage.

In the end these are probably simple tradeoffs between performance and weight. Calipers are unsprung weight.

Another thing that comes to mind; could RB have developed calipers that can run much hotter?

Giogio
Giogio
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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organic wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:11 pm
Have wanted to see this angle of the floor edge wing for a while

📸Motorsport-total

https://i.imgur.com/XzcWFEP.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/L7BG6OJ.jpeg
This aim of this detail is to produce more downforce? If not can you tell me what is the goal? Thanks

Giogio
Giogio
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:33 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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organic wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:21 am
Henk_v wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:19 am
organic wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:04 am
Xavier Gazquez 📸

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_r2o2hXIAE ... &name=orig

I ma surprised by the amount of "tech" in the rear of the floor. Quite a bit going on there....
The floor is low down so a good place to put stuff
Yes, so they can use the push rod, right?

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chrisc90
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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A few pics to sum up, and celebrate, the season the RB19 has had.

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(Apologies its not technical- but I think its a pretty nice set of pics to sum the season up and give credit to the car, the driver and the team as a whole.)

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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A fitting tribute I think, given the overall performance throughout this year.

A technical aspect though, seeing many different angles in sequence of the chassis. Notice how the pull rod front suspension (tension arm) has orientation close to the upper rear wishbone leg (the one described as giving significant anti dive) more an "empathy " in layout as opposed to the pushrod arrangement used and giving a crossed layout on all but the McL chassis too.

There just has to be less drag penalty from this RB arrangement, giving it's own contribution to the whole concept performance.

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F1NAC
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:35 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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As a non RB fan it's hard to say but again I'm glad that I witnessed the greatest car in a history of F1.

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organic
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB19

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KimiRai wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:50 pm
(Italian) Red Bull: mini generatori di vortice sotto alla "scimitarra"

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... /10545916/

https://i.imgur.com/0PKMuqg.png

https://i.imgur.com/DgEAC4t.png
These VGs that Piola brings attention to were added with the Hungary upgrade package. At Monaco they were not present, but with Perez's free practice crash we got an immediate look at the new floor features

Image

Thanks @vroomenjoyer on twitter for pointing out that they were there already in hungary

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB19

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User avatar
organic
986
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB19

Post

organic wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:29 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:34 pm
I do not like where this is going :lol:

I was fascinated by this grid:

https://i.postimg.cc/cLN8yfJc/image.png

I suspect RB has done a thorough analysis of this behaviour and the optimization of the spacing and pin shape. These circular rods seem to have the most cooling performance.

https://i.postimg.cc/kDPDCd75/image.png
Some better images to follow up on this topic that was discussed here a little while ago. RB's unique brake caliper..

Still unclear if these are microtubes or pins, and whether this is an internal structure that a housing would encase as suggested by @Stu

Some input from Henk_v again on the topic especially would be massively welcome..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_ti1SKXMAA ... &name=orig

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_ti1ioXEAA ... =4096x4096

Images from Mateusz Mróz
Yet another photo

Image

Image

ex-F1 aero disagreeing with scarbs over this




Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:41 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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They are not hollow. These are very simple heat exchanger equations. I'll try to explain without getting too mathematical.

The pin rejects heat to tha air. The hotter the pin, the more effective the heat exchange.

That determines the point of deminishing returns on the aspect ratio of the pin. Large pin area means high potential for heat exchange, but only if you can keep it Hot. There needs to be enough material to transport the heat from the caliper to the pin tip.

Assuming this is some form of aluminium. Alloy, the aspect ratio looks about right from experience.

If one would drill out the pin:
-There is no added effective heat exchange area. Only area with high velocity air is effective. The inside area would not have any significant heat exchange.
-It would destroy the heat transport trough the material to the pin tip. The tip would just cooll and cool tips don't exchange heat.

Sure the weight factor shifts the optimum in the equasions a bit, but not that much actually. All exchangers I designed were cost optimised. That is essentially the same as one tries to minimise material usage.

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:41 pm

Re: Red Bull RB19

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In other industries, both pin and fin exchangers are used, sometimes interchangeably.

A thing about a pin exchanger, is that the boindary layer buildup is lower. This effectively means that the heat exchange can be optimised to be a bit more effective if the air transport is low. My guess is RB are optimising their brake cooling to be more effective in slow speed corners. That may make them less dependent on high speed for cooling overall reducing duct size.