2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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DGP123
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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cplchanb wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:32 am
wow only 22 pages for this race thread. a new record low....
speaks volumes or lack there of on the quality of the race.
People try and deflect, but if you’re a neutral, it’s been an awful season. The racing has been abysmal, barely any decent wheel to wheel action, and both championships wrapped up extremely early.

Only had to look at the downbeat SkyF1 pundits talking about the highlights of the season. They all chose the Piastri & Sainz wins, plus visiting, Vegas, as the highlights. Sums it up.

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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DGP123 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:55 am
People try and deflect, but if you’re a neutral, it’s been an awful season. The racing has been abysmal, barely any decent wheel to wheel action, and both championships wrapped up extremely early.

Only had to look at the downbeat SkyF1 pundits talking about the highlights of the season. They all chose the Piastri & Sainz wins, plus visiting, Vegas, as the highlights. Sums it up.
Sorry, but you (and people agreeing with you) aren't by nature more "neutral" than the rest of us. We just view racing differently.

I won't call it a great season, but I remember quite some decent racing, and it hasn't quelled my thirst for more F1. Beyond that, i love seeing records get broken. It's what made Schumachers, Hamiltons and Vettels years special as well, although we are unlikely to see many records broken in 2024.

That SkyF1 are inept at finding good examples reflects badly on them if anything. I can find plenty throughout the Season, from Fernando catching Sainz in Bahrain after disposing of the Mercedes, to the Monaco rain which almost turned the entire race upside down. Quite a few dull races, yes, but overall, I haven't been starved for entertainment. I thought the fight for P2 was amazing, and i loved seeing the racing, even if it wasn't for P1. The form of the chasing pack after Red Bull was up and down all season. Even Perez antics attaining stupid penalties and track limits helped add spice to what was otherwise a dominant car. To be honest, he's been like Latifi in a Red Bull this year.

I'll give the Season a 5.5/10. Not great, but just good enough.

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SiLo
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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TFSA wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:14 am
DGP123 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:55 am
People try and deflect, but if you’re a neutral, it’s been an awful season. The racing has been abysmal, barely any decent wheel to wheel action, and both championships wrapped up extremely early.

Only had to look at the downbeat SkyF1 pundits talking about the highlights of the season. They all chose the Piastri & Sainz wins, plus visiting, Vegas, as the highlights. Sums it up.
Sorry, but you (and people agreeing with you) aren't by nature more "neutral" than the rest of us. We just view racing differently.

I won't call it a great season, but I remember quite some decent racing, and it hasn't quelled my thirst for more F1. Beyond that, i love seeing records get broken. It's what made Schumachers, Hamiltons and Vettels years special as well, although we are unlikely to see many records broken in 2024.

That SkyF1 are inept at finding good examples reflects badly on them if anything. I can find plenty throughout the Season, from Fernando catching Sainz in Bahrain after disposing of the Mercedes, to the Monaco rain which almost turned the entire race upside down. Quite a few dull races, yes, but overall, I haven't been starved for entertainment. I thought the fight for P2 was amazing, and i loved seeing the racing, even if it wasn't for P1. The form of the chasing pack after Red Bull was up and down all season. Even Perez antics attaining stupid penalties and track limits helped add spice to what was otherwise a dominant car. To be honest, he's been like Latifi in a Red Bull this year.

I'll give the Season a 5.5/10. Not great, but just good enough.
5.5 for a season is barely above average, not sure how that's good enough.

But then again, each fan perspective is different. I've found this year incredibly boring, but I have found an even deeper love for the technical aspect of the sport, as well as finding new appreciation for drivers like Albon.

The racing has been mostly terrible, and I hate these new standards that the stewards seem to be allowing to develop.
Felipe Baby!

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:33 pm

5.5 for a season is barely above average, not sure how that's good enough.
It could be better, but the poster i quoted used the word "awful", which I do not agree with at all.

As you said: 5.5 is barely above average. But it's still above average.

In fact, I'd probably rate 2023 slightly above above 2022. 2022 started of as a banger, but then mellowed out, and despite a few good races towards the end like Singapore and Brazil, i found most of the racing boring and non-memorable. This year with more teams competing for the upper midfield was more exciting to me.

SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:33 pm
The racing has been mostly terrible, and I hate these new standards that the stewards seem to be allowing to develop.
What standards? I agree the stewarding has left some to be desired, but I'd love to hear what you think needs changing.

In other news, I just read on Twitter that the FIA is considering Karun as Steward. The account listed below here is questionable, but I certainly don't hope that this is true. Not a fan of his calls regarding incidents on Sky. Almost everything is a racing incident to him. 😑

Last edited by TFSA on Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

avantman
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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yeah, I remember Silverstone 2021 was racing incident in his book. He's way too soft and easily influenced for such job.

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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DGP123 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:55 am
cplchanb wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:32 am
wow only 22 pages for this race thread. a new record low....
speaks volumes or lack there of on the quality of the race.
People try and deflect, but if you’re a neutral, it’s been an awful season. The racing has been abysmal, barely any decent wheel to wheel action, and both championships wrapped up extremely early.

Only had to look at the downbeat SkyF1 pundits talking about the highlights of the season. They all chose the Piastri & Sainz wins, plus visiting, Vegas, as the highlights. Sums it up.
Well. So, this is this one race thread. In this very race we had an opening lap with 3 wheel to wheel battles between the leader and the runner up. Then a very tight first stint and after that, yes, no (V)SC interruption and the difference was made. There have been many seasons where the first car just hammertimed away up to 5 seconds until the engine was turned down again and I am pretty sure I never heard you about that.

I don’t know how many wheel to wheel battles you require but this doesn’t really classify as barely to me.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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DGP123 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:55 am
People try and deflect, but if you’re a neutral, it’s been an awful season. The racing has been abysmal, barely any decent wheel to wheel action, and both championships wrapped up extremely early.
This is partially because some drivers couldn't help but to crash into their opponent in any wheel to wheel battle, not for lack of wheel to wheel battles. There were numerous.

Mostlyeels
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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TFSA wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:12 pm
In fact, I'd probably rate 2023 slightly above above 2022. 2022 started of as a banger, but then mellowed out, and despite a few good races towards the end like Singapore and Brazil, i found most of the racing boring and non-memorable. This year with more teams competing for the upper midfield was more exciting to me.
Yeah, the midfield saved this year for me. McLaren's rags-to-riches, Mercedes patchy form, Ferrari good->bad->good, AMR good->bad->OK, made for a few races that were hard to judge coming into the weekend, and I loved the uncertainty. Even though I'm a McLaren fan, I got a bit bored when they started coming consistently second; it was always more fun to watch races where they struggled but came good.

Also, really enjoyed Williams travels through the year, and Alpha Tauri's last minute return.

mzivtins
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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I think that those who see this season as abysmal are those who also watch other classes of motorsport.

I can see how f1 in a vacuum would still provide excitement, but when comparing with other classes Drs overtakes alone make this sport feel like WWE.

everything in f1 seems to be on the smaller scale, cars will chase each other closely for maybe 5 laps maximum on average, whereas in many other classes cars will be within 0.5seconds of each other for 20minutes solid. It promotes interesting racing and different racing lines.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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mzivtins wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:00 am
I think that those who see this season as abysmal are those who also watch other classes of motorsport.

I can see how f1 in a vacuum would still provide excitement, but when comparing with other classes Drs overtakes alone make this sport feel like WWE.

everything in f1 seems to be on the smaller scale, cars will chase each other closely for maybe 5 laps maximum on average, whereas in many other classes cars will be within 0.5seconds of each other for 20minutes solid. It promotes interesting racing and different racing lines.
And yet here we are on an f1technical forum of all places 11 years later (since registered) still debating F1 related stuff. I wonder how there's still any people around after all this blandness and WWE-like racing. For all i care everyone constantly dissing on f1 can go watch nascar or any other half assed championship. bye

Matt2725
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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avantman wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:20 pm
yeah, I remember Silverstone 2021 was racing incident in his book. He's way too soft and easily influenced for such job.
He wasn't the only one. A number of ex-drivers were calling it a racing incident or at the very least leaning that way.

The 10 second penalty was whatever, it didn't ruin the result so it matters not. The only reason they took action was because of who it was, not what happened. Anyone with a few brain cells saw that crash coming from T2 onwards on that lap.
I know a lot of people clamour for 2021 to return, but it got far too ugly for my liking.

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Mogster
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Matt2725 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:57 pm
avantman wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:20 pm
yeah, I remember Silverstone 2021 was racing incident in his book. He's way too soft and easily influenced for such job.
He wasn't the only one. A number of ex-drivers were calling it a racing incident or at the very least leaning that way.

The 10 second penalty was whatever, it didn't ruin the result so it matters not. The only reason they took action was because of who it was, not what happened. Anyone with a few brain cells saw that crash coming from T2 onwards on that lap.
I know a lot of people clamour for 2021 to return, but it got far too ugly for my liking.
That whole first lap was incredible to watch. It’s a shame how it turned out, the race was set up to be amazing, but you couldn’t really see any other outcome. Neither was going to back down, neither appeared concerned for their own or their opponents safety.

Racing incident.

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SiLo
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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TFSA wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:12 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:33 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:33 pm
The racing has been mostly terrible, and I hate these new standards that the stewards seem to be allowing to develop.
What standards? I agree the stewarding has left some to be desired, but I'd love to hear what you think needs changing.

In other news, I just read on Twitter that the FIA is considering Karun as Steward. The account listed below here is questionable, but I certainly don't hope that this is true. Not a fan of his calls regarding incidents on Sky. Almost everything is a racing incident to him. 😑

The on track racing standards, and application of penalties for rule infringements. 5s penalties are almost utterly pointless, and drivers now appear to be able to do almost whatever they want when it comes to pushing people off track and barging into them.

I preferred when penalties were harsher because it helped keep racing tidy and fair. Rather than designed for "the show".
Felipe Baby!

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:17 pm
The on track racing standards, and application of penalties for rule infringements. 5s penalties are almost utterly pointless, and drivers now appear to be able to do almost whatever they want when it comes to pushing people off track and barging into them.

I preferred when penalties were harsher because it helped keep racing tidy and fair. Rather than designed for "the show".
I agree, but i don't think it's down to the stewards necessarily.

From what i understand, it was the FIA who somewhere around 2020-2021 asked the Stewards to be less severe with penalties, in order to not discourage racing between the drivers. In hindsight, it was probably not the best idea. Drivers will always race (and have always raced).

My beliefs summarized shortly:
  • Stewards should sometimes (not always) take harsher stances on collisions and running people off the track, and start using harsher penalties more often.
  • Race Control needs to go back to the old ways of telling teams/drivers to give positions back.
  • New penalty options for Stewards would be nice. 15 sec time penalties, but also the ability to drop a driver X amount of places from the final standing. That last penalty should only be reserved for actual collisions though.
  • 5 second penalties sometimes still have their place, including for collisions. Stewards should look at each incident and decide how recklessly a driver acted, or if there are mitigating circumstances. They could award award lesser penalties for lap 1 altercations that doesn't qualify as racing incidents etc.

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Matt2725 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:57 pm
He wasn't the only one. A number of ex-drivers were calling it a racing incident or at the very least leaning that way.

The 10 second penalty was whatever, it didn't ruin the result so it matters not. The only reason they took action was because of who it was, not what happened. Anyone with a few brain cells saw that crash coming from T2 onwards on that lap.
I know a lot of people clamour for 2021 to return, but it got far too ugly for my liking.
If anyone could see the crash coming from miles away, then it wasn't a racing incident. That's a clear sign of two drivers driving recklessly.

The former race drivers would not be arguing the same if they were the victim of a similar thing in a race. They would be moaning, both on the radio, but also post-race. To be honest, I think their past as ex-F1 drivers actually clouds their judgment here, and I've think they've lost sight of the idea of sporting fairness, and that you can't just recklessly take out your opposition, whether you're fighting for P1 or P10 in the championship.

That the penalty ended up not mattering is also why many people - me included (referring to my post above, and to SiLo who i quoted) - would like to see harsher penalties in the sport for reckless driving. I'm not saying bring back black flags (except if someone intentionally crashes their opponent), but drivers should drive with care. Open wheel series are not bumper cars. While there's certainly a charm to cars racing side by side and scraping like they do in NASCAR, it has no place in Formula 1. They're different series for a reason.