Give it a rest...
Sports aren't fair.
Car was good at all remaining tracks except Brazil which was a set up blunder. I would say the floor is working as he described it would but none of us have the data to say.CHT wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:06 pmLuscion wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:04 amAllison has said he hasnt touched anything to do with the W14 since he came back and is only working on the W15, i thought he did since the new floor at COTA was said to be a trail run for the new concept so dont know how that works but yeaCHT wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:49 amWas just watching the post-race interview last night. Comparing this year's Abu Dhabi post-race interview to 2022, the Merc drivers (especially LH) seem less optimistic as compared to last year when they won a race in Brazil. LH is also showing some signs of burnout after a very difficult and long season struggling with W14.
Since James Allison returned as Technical Director 7 months ago, the Merc has shown some signs of improvement but still struggling with the car setup and unpredictability. With Hamilton talking about Max's 17-second gap to 2nd, even when Max was barely pushing at the front that will put tremendous pressure on James Allsons his team over the winter to deliver a Brawn GP-like miracle with the W15
What is good for LH is shifting his focus on remaining in F1 for the Africa race which also means he may be hanging around for some more years to come as I don't think a race in Africa can be set up within a year or 2.
If 2024 doesn't turn out well, I think it will be closure for LH on the 8th WDC to start looking to become an ambassador for F1 instead.
and i think Lewis looking burnt out is a combination of him waiting to never have to drive the W14 again and the brutal schedule they had with the last two races, having to adjust to LV time, having to stay up until 4am and then going halfway across the world to a completely different timezone after just getting used to LV's timezone. the season was over, it was clear the car couldnt win a race, he had p3 in the driver's championship locked in and only had to worry about P2 for the team
Here is James Allison talking about the new floor in Oct 2023. Obviously, it didn't turn out as well as they hoped for
"It should be good at any circuit for the remainder of the year. It’s not transformative, [it] should be about a tenth of a second.
"It’s in the direction we think is decent, both for producing downforce in the right place, and hopefully being resistant to the bounciness that all these cars nibble at as soon as you try and get much downforce from them."
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... zloec.html
They tried something radical and it back fired. Elliot should’ve realised it was going to fail when the compromises the concept needed started counting up. Glad Allison is running the show as I think they will get back to the front quicker than if Mike was leading it (if they ever did under him). But of course Mike must be credited for his contribution to their success in the turbo hybrid era.
I agree as he said last season -as soon as he gets a good car he will raise his game like he has always done to fight for the WDC. This is the difference between elite drivers like max and lewis compared to other drivers. When needed they find that little more mental strength, skill, determination, will etc to push their capabilities to another level, with EXTREME pressure and be consistent. I cannot say that for any other driver (maybe Alonso?) on the grid.
Alison from his earlier days and first Ferrari he designed was known to give VERY good drivable cars which have good balance. Whether he can make it fast enough is another story. Lewis said the last best car mercedes produced was the 2020 car which was Alisons last one he fully designed before he left to do sailing.Elite wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:35 pmThey tried something radical and it back fired. Elliot should’ve realised it was going to fail when the compromises the concept needed started counting up. Glad Allison is running the show as I think they will get back to the front quicker than if Mike was leading it (if they ever did under him). But of course Mike must be credited for his contribution to their success in the turbo hybrid era.
Elite wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:13 pmCar was good at all remaining tracks except Brazil which was a set up blunder. I would say the floor is working as he described it would but none of us have the data to say.CHT wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:06 pmLuscion wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:04 am
Allison has said he hasnt touched anything to do with the W14 since he came back and is only working on the W15, i thought he did since the new floor at COTA was said to be a trail run for the new concept so dont know how that works but yea
and i think Lewis looking burnt out is a combination of him waiting to never have to drive the W14 again and the brutal schedule they had with the last two races, having to adjust to LV time, having to stay up until 4am and then going halfway across the world to a completely different timezone after just getting used to LV's timezone. the season was over, it was clear the car couldnt win a race, he had p3 in the driver's championship locked in and only had to worry about P2 for the team
Here is James Allison talking about the new floor in Oct 2023. Obviously, it didn't turn out as well as they hoped for
"It should be good at any circuit for the remainder of the year. It’s not transformative, [it] should be about a tenth of a second.
"It’s in the direction we think is decent, both for producing downforce in the right place, and hopefully being resistant to the bounciness that all these cars nibble at as soon as you try and get much downforce from them."
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... zloec.html
Either way the W15 will need to be a big improvement to compete at the front. Luckily they have some low hanging fruit like moving the cockpit back, no more zero pods chassis and the engine benefits that allegedly come from it and moving the SIPS. They will also need to complete redesign the suspension imo as that seems to be quite important in this rule set. An efficient car is what they need to make essentially, one that works at all if not most tracks. Not like other cars where they will be fast one race and then at the back in another, but luckily they’re not that inefficient.
stonehenge wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:23 pm
I think Mercedes has a good chance to significantly improve over the winter since, as you say, there are some very low hanging fruit out there, particularly on the geometry of the chassis and rear suspension. Word on the street is that all teams are pretty much gonna copy Red Bull's approach next year so there should be some gains there from every team. The question (as always in F1) is how much relative gain can teams make, and that comes down to how high the ceiling for Red Bull is. I hope it's quite low, and there are good reasons to think so.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rb20-2024/The RB20 will be another evolution. Red Bull still sees plenty of potential for development with its concept, which everyone has now switched to. The development curve is still steep, according to rumours from Milton Keynes. With the early start to development, the world champion team hopes to come out of the starting blocks with plenty of momentum.
And yet there are stumbling blocks. Although the budget cap penalty has expired, it is likely to continue to have an impact to a certain extent in 2024. It is said that this will primarily affect the second package - i.e. the first upgrade package during the season.
Luscion wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:46 pmdid we listen to the same interview? thats just normal Toto and nothing he said there indicated he thinks they're doomed for 2024. About the suspension, Merc are completely changing the suspension, rear and front for the W15, both Toto and Shovlin have said so, shovlin also said they found a lot of development potential with suspension after bringing their Monaco upgrades.McMika98 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:00 pmstonehenge wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:23 pm
I think Mercedes has a good chance to significantly improve over the winter since, as you say, there are some very low hanging fruit out there, particularly on the geometry of the chassis and rear suspension. Word on the street is that all teams are pretty much gonna copy Red Bull's approach next year so there should be some gains there from every team. The question (as always in F1) is how much relative gain can teams make, and that comes down to how high the ceiling for Red Bull is. I hope it's quite low, and there are good reasons to think so.
HATE to burst your and many fans bubble but it ain't happening.
ToTo speaking to the F1 Nation podcast after Abu Dhabi is absolute resolute and dismissive. He mentioned that looking at Aston early season showed that the suspension and gearbox etc were fundamentally sound and did not need addressing. Such a shame as they will drag both Aston and Williams down with this utter stupendous arrogance and unwavering penchant to fail and not learn from mistakes. 2024 is already looking gloomy with no chance of catching Redbull but being behind Mclaren and Alpha Tauri.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... HQAAAAAQFA
To add more insult to injury
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rb20-2024/The RB20 will be another evolution. Red Bull still sees plenty of potential for development with its concept, which everyone has now switched to. The development curve is still steep, according to rumours from Milton Keynes. With the early start to development, the world champion team hopes to come out of the starting blocks with plenty of momentum.
And yet there are stumbling blocks. Although the budget cap penalty has expired, it is likely to continue to have an impact to a certain extent in 2024. It is said that this will primarily affect the second package - i.e. the first upgrade package during the season.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10481878/
The gear box and engine layout will also change due to it not having to be limited by the zero pod design anymore. Like toto said, almost every component will be changed, theres almost nothing theyre keeping from the W14
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10552803/
One thing I can be confident of is they should be much quicker in the straight line. With the zero pod cooling restrictions gone the pu will be able to run harder, like they did in Vegas. And they were among the quickest in the straights in Vegas. That and I’m sure their new aero concept will gain some efficiency.Luscion wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:58 pmLuscion wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:46 pmdid we listen to the same interview? thats just normal Toto and nothing he said there indicated he thinks they're doomed for 2024. About the suspension, Merc are completely changing the suspension, rear and front for the W15, both Toto and Shovlin have said so, shovlin also said they found a lot of development potential with suspension after bringing their Monaco upgrades.McMika98 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:00 pm
HATE to burst your and many fans bubble but it ain't happening.
ToTo speaking to the F1 Nation podcast after Abu Dhabi is absolute resolute and dismissive. He mentioned that looking at Aston early season showed that the suspension and gearbox etc were fundamentally sound and did not need addressing. Such a shame as they will drag both Aston and Williams down with this utter stupendous arrogance and unwavering penchant to fail and not learn from mistakes. 2024 is already looking gloomy with no chance of catching Redbull but being behind Mclaren and Alpha Tauri.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... HQAAAAAQFA
To add more insult to injury
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rb20-2024/
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10481878/
The gear box and engine layout will also change due to it not having to be limited by the zero pod design anymore. Like toto said, almost every component will be changed, theres almost nothing theyre keeping from the W14
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10552803/
He is in a far better position to know than we are. Even if he does not have the knowledge himself he works closely with those who do so it is not just his own thought. Despite what some would have us believe he is not thick, nor does he have total control of the planning direction. Even in the disaster that was 2023 they finished second.McMika98 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:00 pmstonehenge wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:23 pm
I think Mercedes has a good chance to significantly improve over the winter since, as you say, there are some very low hanging fruit out there, particularly on the geometry of the chassis and rear suspension. Word on the street is that all teams are pretty much gonna copy Red Bull's approach next year so there should be some gains there from every team. The question (as always in F1) is how much relative gain can teams make, and that comes down to how high the ceiling for Red Bull is. I hope it's quite low, and there are good reasons to think so.
HATE to burst your and many fans bubble but it ain't happening.
ToTo speaking to the F1 Nation podcast after Abu Dhabi is absolute resolute and dismissive. He mentioned that looking at Aston early season showed that the suspension and gearbox etc were fundamentally sound and did not need addressing. Such a shame as they will drag both Aston and Williams down with this utter stupendous arrogance and unwavering penchant to fail and not learn from mistakes. 2024 is already looking gloomy with no chance of catching Redbull but being behind Mclaren and Alpha Tauri.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... HQAAAAAQFA
To add more insult to injury
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rb20-2024/The RB20 will be another evolution. Red Bull still sees plenty of potential for development with its concept, which everyone has now switched to. The development curve is still steep, according to rumours from Milton Keynes. With the early start to development, the world champion team hopes to come out of the starting blocks with plenty of momentum.
And yet there are stumbling blocks. Although the budget cap penalty has expired, it is likely to continue to have an impact to a certain extent in 2024. It is said that this will primarily affect the second package - i.e. the first upgrade package during the season.
Really doesn't seem like you "hate" to do whatever it is you're trying to do here. Your reputation score of -24 on the site seems rather telling, though.
Although I am somewhat of a Merc fan, I want to see ALL the teams go up from where they are. The more scrapping for wins the better I like it