2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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ScottR267 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 7:40 pm
https://x.com/decalspotters/status/1742 ... qGtvf6jqBQ

Tezos and Sparco left the team as sponsors/suppliers
Sparco are being replaced by AlpineStars, or so it says.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:40 pm
ScottR267 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 7:40 pm
https://x.com/decalspotters/status/1742 ... qGtvf6jqBQ

Tezos and Sparco left the team as sponsors/suppliers
Sparco are being replaced by AlpineStars, or so it says.
Who left Aston Martin I believe
Just a fan's point of view

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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This is slightly off topic but why there are people thinking that a customer team is unable to get a championship against a factory team no matter what wind tunnel they build or what technical team they bring?

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 5kbZP.html

Zak talking about the expectations of the new season in quite a positive light.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Don’t Zak….
Just a fan's point of view

Ground Effect
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:17 am
Don’t Zak….
Don't what?
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:34 pm
This is slightly off topic but why there are people thinking that a customer team is unable to get a championship against a factory team no matter what wind tunnel they build or what technical team they bring?
In the past factory team could run different engine modes - effectively giving them opportunity to keep customer engine weaker. This is no longer the case.

Not sure about the second one. When you are designing the car it is important to know dimensions and locations of various engine parts. If the factory team withholds that information it is possible that you have to do changes later in the development process. For example if Mercedes changes their engine size/positioning but doesn't tell McLaren until later on, factory team has the advantage in packaging.

Still - I think this is a mistake and factory teams used to be better than customer teams mostly because of funding. With the cost cap this should no longer apply.

CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:38 am
CjC wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:17 am
Don’t Zak….
Don't what?
Don’t say positive things to build expectations. I’d rather like to just go into a new season thinking McLaren will be in the midfield🤣
Just a fan's point of view

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bauc
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:08 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:38 am
CjC wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:17 am
Don’t Zak….
Don't what?
Don’t say positive things to build expectations. I’d rather like to just go into a new season thinking McLaren will be in the midfield🤣
LOL, he just said he anticipates a stronger start than in 2023, remember where we started in 2023? Almost dead last! So yeah, I would too expect a better start in 2024, is that not the point, to be better? Why the overreaction to every single word?
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
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Emag
Emag
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:34 pm
This is slightly off topic but why there are people thinking that a customer team is unable to get a championship against a factory team no matter what wind tunnel they build or what technical team they bring?
Because in the early hybrid era (2014-2017), there were several substantial advantages that factory teams had over their customers, which under normal circumstances, would mean the customer would not be able to beat them (unless the customer is RedBull and the factory team is Renault).

For starters, when this power unit formula was new, substantial chassis gains could be made from having the power unit configured a certain way. Of course, the factory teams would design the power units to fit with their mechanical and aero package, whereas the customers simply had to deal with whatever configuration was given to them, even if it didn't fit 100% with their philosophy. This no longer applies because these power units have pretty much converged to an optimal design and there's barely any substantial change in terms of packaging from one year to the next.

Another straight out advantage that the factory teams had, was that there was no rule which enforced the customers would get the same quality of a power unit as the factory team. So for the first 2-3 years of these regulations, Mercedes literally had a better power unit than their customers.

And thirdly, a factory team unrestricted by a budget cap literally has more manpower which works together towards the ultimate goal of making a faster car. Mercedes and Ferrari were spending close to half a billion euros every year. That's very difficult to compete with for almost any customer except perhaps RedBull (which is now a factory team) and McLaren (which actually wasn't doing so well financially a couple of years ago).

All of these no longer apply, so people saying customer teams cannot beat factory teams are simply stuck in the past because up until a couple of years ago, it really was extremely difficult for it to happen.

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:38 am
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:34 pm
This is slightly off topic but why there are people thinking that a customer team is unable to get a championship against a factory team no matter what wind tunnel they build or what technical team they bring?
In the past factory team could run different engine modes - effectively giving them opportunity to keep customer engine weaker. This is no longer the case.

Not sure about the second one. When you are designing the car it is important to know dimensions and locations of various engine parts. If the factory team withholds that information it is possible that you have to do changes later in the development process. For example if Mercedes changes their engine size/positioning but doesn't tell McLaren until later on, factory team has the advantage in packaging.

Still - I think this is a mistake and factory teams used to be better than customer teams mostly because of funding. With the cost cap this should no longer apply.
Also now that McLaren has a seat at the table when it comes to Merc engine design for the new 2026 regs, this should be a moot point

-wkst-
-wkst-
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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And nonetheless only work teams or de facto work teams are winning championships for years.

They have years of advantage of better human resources, years of better infrastructure, years of huge financial advantages.

Regulations changes 2022: first Q result: Ferrari/RB/Ferrari/RB/Mercedes - BOT best of the rest car 1 sec behind.

For sure 2024 and 2025 will be better for customers, but only wait for 2026...

And to think that the big teams aren't spending a lot of money outside the budget cap for "other projects than F1" (which will benefit F1 in some ways nonetheless) is naive.

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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not to get into a history lesson here, but factory teams usually have bigger budgets which allows them to dominate. the spending cap eliminates that advantage.
if you think factory teams are cheating on the spending cap despite the FIA's audits, well, cant help there...

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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bauc wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:37 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:08 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:38 am


Don't what?
Don’t say positive things to build expectations. I’d rather like to just go into a new season thinking McLaren will be in the midfield🤣
LOL, he just said he anticipates a stronger start than in 2023, remember where we started in 2023? Almost dead last! So yeah, I would too expect a better start in 2024, is that not the point, to be better? Why the overreaction to every single word?
It’s not an overreaction. :wink:
You’ve just misunderstood my post which I understand as it’s just written word and the emojis I used haven’t come up. :roll:
If you could see my facial expression and zest in my voice you would interpret me differently. :wink:

There have been some positive noises coming from Mclaren this off season already via Lando and Stella. Now Zac has join in so I’m jokingly saying ‘don’t raise my/ our expectations only to be disappointed in Bahrain’
I’ve had many of seasons where this has happened but this time around it feels different- there is no Ron Dennis BS :lol:
Just a fan's point of view

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Great read if you pay past the paywall👍🏻

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/can- ... /10562603/

It’s concerning how the Red Bull B team keeps cropping up.
Makes me wonder if Stella and co expect the new pecking order to be Red Bull A, Red Bull B, then (insert any of the other 8 teams). More than once I’ve read now that Alpha Tauri was the strongest car in the slow speed corners from Mexico onwards.
Just a fan's point of view