Red Bull RB20

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Andi76
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Venturiation wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:51 pm
Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."


"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004
And where does Red Bull put the more than obvious radiators? And all the other components? Do they tie them "to the roof"?

Image

And where has he confirmed Zeropods please? All he says is that they went in "a similar direction" and that they will now test it. What basically means what we see is Red Bulls "Zeropds" what has not much to do with what Mercedes did.At the end of the day it is nothing more than a further development of last year's concept. A substantial further development, yes. But nothing more. But it will certainly never be a Zeropod. Unless Red Bull's engineers can suddenly work their magic and make the radiators and all the other many components that are clearly visible disappear.

Image
Last edited by Andi76 on Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Image

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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timbo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:31 pm
I wonder if the radiators can be arranged in a sort of horizontal V configuration. E.g. something like
Image

Looks like it. Hadn't seen this angle yet. ↓

Andi76 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:33 pm
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AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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What I cannot reconcile is the purpose of the inlets to the left and right of the driver's head.

The sidepod itself is not much smaller than RB19, so why would sizeable cooling inlets appear next to the driver's head? It makes me think that the additional cooling inlets are a test of the flow quality in this area and that much smaller sidepods will appear in Japan.

Andi76
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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stewie325 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:47 pm
AbulafiaF1 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:29 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:18 pm
What a shock zeropod won't come



I would argue the exact opposite. This picture confirms what many people in here are saying. i.e. that the radiators have been mounted vertically and high, and now occupy the two channels running either side of the engine cover, leaving the sidepods with, mainly, empty space. It's not hard to imaging the sidepods shrinking to take advantage this empty space, in cooler races.
Agree, there seems to be sufficient space for the undercut to be even larger in the middle of the sidepod area, where it's currently very bulbous.
Sorry, but can't you see that the whole sidepod area is packed with radiators and other components? There is NO empty space here. On the contrary, it's all packed

Image

Image

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deadhead
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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The sidepod will likely be further "sculpted"

Andi76
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:12 am
The air behind the cockpit and around Halo is quite bad, it's almost as bad for radiator cooling as the front tyre wake. I don't think those openings above cockpit are used for radiator cooling, but rather for some internal flow conditioning, most likely complementary along with (internal?) S duct outlet. In theory, you can get away with smaller radiator inlets if you manage to increase the pressure difference between inlets and outlets and internal flow management is crucial for that. Introducing a bit more cool air also helps :mrgreen:
Looks absolutely like it. If you look at it from the side, the halo is perfectly integrated into the bazooka area. What you say would then be a great logical next step.

KimiRai
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Image


Cs98
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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What I don't understand is why RB insists on running these bulky intercoolers. You look at the Merc powered cars and they have very small packaging under the sidepod. Is it just weight? Would've thought they could eat that penalty by now in the regs.

Farnborough
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Andi76 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:26 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:12 am
The air behind the cockpit and around Halo is quite bad, it's almost as bad for radiator cooling as the front tyre wake. I don't think those openings above cockpit are used for radiator cooling, but rather for some internal flow conditioning, most likely complementary along with (internal?) S duct outlet. In theory, you can get away with smaller radiator inlets if you manage to increase the pressure difference between inlets and outlets and internal flow management is crucial for that. Introducing a bit more cool air also helps :mrgreen:
Looks absolutely like it. If you look at it from the side, the halo is perfectly integrated into the bazooka area. What you say would then be a great logical next step.
Agree with the possibility in this direction. Many paint spray gun work on pressured air causing negative draw on an entrypoint within that route to cause relative vacuum.
There's example in industrial use of vacuum extraction gates for liquid "powered" only by compressed air supply, sounds an odd concept, but very simple and very effective.

Farnborough
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Cs98 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:30 pm
What I don't understand is why RB insists on running these bulky intercoolers. You look at the Merc powered cars and they have very small packaging under the sidepod. Is it just weight? Would've thought they could eat that penalty by now in the regs.
And which concept is fastest so far in this iteration of rules ?

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vorticism
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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I've always assumed air to air was lighter. Fewer parts at least and if something breaks or leaks you don't ingest coolant into the engine. Then again, Merc and Ferrari had their water intercoolers sorted since 2014.
Last edited by vorticism on Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stewie325
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Andi76 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:00 pm
stewie325 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:47 pm
AbulafiaF1 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:29 pm


I would argue the exact opposite. This picture confirms what many people in here are saying. i.e. that the radiators have been mounted vertically and high, and now occupy the two channels running either side of the engine cover, leaving the sidepods with, mainly, empty space. It's not hard to imaging the sidepods shrinking to take advantage this empty space, in cooler races.
Agree, there seems to be sufficient space for the undercut to be even larger in the middle of the sidepod area, where it's currently very bulbous.
Sorry, but can't you see that the whole sidepod area is packed with radiators and other components? There is NO empty space here. On the contrary, it's all packed

https://postimg.cc/T5MtWMJS

https://postimg.cc/hzjp3XTR
It's not at all obvious unless you have that pic taken from the front.

Merc's so called "zero pods" looked huge from the front. From the above pics, I reckon the RB20 has a good amount of empty space to shrink the side-pods to a similar volume to the W13, but instead the volume will be placed higher with a big undercut. All speculation until someone shows the RB20 internals from a better angle.

Image

trinidefender
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Cs98 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:30 pm
What I don't understand is why RB insists on running these bulky intercoolers. You look at the Merc powered cars and they have very small packaging under the sidepod. Is it just weight? Would've thought they could eat that penalty by now in the regs.
Might be a requirement of the Honda PU to have cooler inlet air temperatures.

Or maybe the weight penalty just isn’t worth it to them.

.poz
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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vorticism wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:39 pm
I've always assumed air to air was lighter. Fewer parts at least and if something breaks or leaks you don't ingest coolant into the engine.
but it's bulky, with big air pipes

with air to liquid you cat put the proper intercooler where you want and then you have smaller water pipes to and from the coolant radiator