Silly season 2024-2025

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chrisc90
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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falonso81 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:15 pm
Sainz would want to go to a team that would at least offer him an equal status to his teammate. RedBull is not an option as long as Max is there. Merc is on a downhill path. Aston is an option (if Alonso jumps ship) but does not look good either. Maybe he will opt for a year out, as i do not see any viable option for him atm.
Look at Danny. A year out has done his career in.
If I was Sainz, I’d want to go with a team that’s the pinnacle of the field. You, as a driver, want to be somewhere where you can compete for wins or at least a podium.

Alonso did the same, and it was only whilst AMR was half decent last year season start he could do that. Then it took a downward turn, and still is to a degree. (By far not the worst team on the grid)

So he’s only really left with RBR, Mercedes, McLaren , or Ferrari. He’s just been axed from Ferrari so no good going there. McLaren has their seats tied, Mercedes are on a downward spiral and way out their depth this reg set; so only leaves red bull if Perez doesn’t re-sign.
If I was RBR, I’d choose Sainz. Better than Perez (Perez brings the £££ in). First choice would have been Lando, but that’s seemingly out the equation.
Free agent and proven all round good driver/race winner. Sainz is the man.

Only man to de-throne Max in a lot of races…

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falonso81
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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I believe he wants a No1 role, that is why I am not seeing him going to Redbull. On the other hand, he might as well accept the compromise of being No2 to Max and grab a few wins here and there.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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Does any car in the field give a better chance to beat Verstappen, rather than the other Redbull?

dialtone
dialtone
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Silly season 2024-2025

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Big Gun wrote:No I dont rank Sainz as top tier (yet)

Top tier A
Max
Alonso
Hamilton
Lecerc

Maybe Norris just makes tier A

Top tier B
Russell
Sainz

an Piastri just makes tier B.

Think any one of the tier A can be Champion if the car is close to the best, where as tier B can be champion if the car is close to the best and their teamate has a difficult season
There is only one driver in

Top Tier 1: Verstappen.

Top Tier 2: Hamilton, Alonso and so on...
There is no indication this is true in any way.

Max is a fenomenal driver but it’s too early to say he’s in his own tier, and definitely hard to evaluate that with the car and teammate he has.

EDIT: just to preempt some replies: Hamilton straight up beat some world champion teammates of the caliber of Alonso and Button, and is certainly giving Russell a run for his money.

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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dialtone wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:35 am
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Big Gun wrote:No I dont rank Sainz as top tier (yet)

Top tier A
Max
Alonso
Hamilton
Lecerc

Maybe Norris just makes tier A

Top tier B
Russell
Sainz

an Piastri just makes tier B.

Think any one of the tier A can be Champion if the car is close to the best, where as tier B can be champion if the car is close to the best and their teamate has a difficult season
There is only one driver in

Top Tier 1: Verstappen.

Top Tier 2: Hamilton, Alonso and so on...
There is no indication this is true in any way.

Max is a fenomenal driver but it’s too early to say he’s in his own tier, and definitely hard to evaluate that with the car and teammate he has.

EDIT: just to preempt some replies: Hamilton straight up beat some world champion teammates of the caliber of Alonso and Button, and is certainly giving Russell a run for his money.
Agreed. Max is certainly top tier, but he's not doing anything Vettel didn't do before him. Does that put Vettel in the same league as Max?

Max, Lewis and Alonso all occupy the very top tier.

Jurgen von Diaz
Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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PapayaFan481 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:35 am
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:There is only one driver in

Top Tier 1: Verstappen.

Top Tier 2: Hamilton, Alonso and so on...
There is no indication this is true in any way.

Max is a fenomenal driver but it’s too early to say he’s in his own tier, and definitely hard to evaluate that with the car and teammate he has.

EDIT: just to preempt some replies: Hamilton straight up beat some world champion teammates of the caliber of Alonso and Button, and is certainly giving Russell a run for his money.
Agreed. Max is certainly top tier, but he's not doing anything Vettel didn't do before him. Does that put Vettel in the same league as Max?

Max, Lewis and Alonso all occupy the very top tier.
Hamilton is having hard times with Russell and Merc, Alonso is just old and past his prime also. If you put those guys in to the fastest car, so it would be Red Bull. Max is known for his ability to adapt very sharpy and oversteer car, so Hamilton and Alonso would have even harder times against Verstappen. If Hamilton can't match Russell's speed at the moment, how the hell he would be doing that in the Red Bull against Max?

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
PapayaFan481 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:35 am
There is no indication this is true in any way.

Max is a fenomenal driver but it’s too early to say he’s in his own tier, and definitely hard to evaluate that with the car and teammate he has.

EDIT: just to preempt some replies: Hamilton straight up beat some world champion teammates of the caliber of Alonso and Button, and is certainly giving Russell a run for his money.
Agreed. Max is certainly top tier, but he's not doing anything Vettel didn't do before him. Does that put Vettel in the same league as Max?

Max, Lewis and Alonso all occupy the very top tier.
Hamilton is having hard times with Russell and Merc, Alonso is just old and past his prime also. If you put those guys in to the fastest car, so it would be Red Bull. Max is known for his ability to adapt very sharpy and oversteer car, so Hamilton and Alonso would have even harder times against Verstappen. If Hamilton can't match Russell's speed at the moment, how the hell he would be doing that in the Red Bull against Max?
Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.

Jurgen von Diaz
Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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dialtone wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
PapayaFan481 wrote: Agreed. Max is certainly top tier, but he's not doing anything Vettel didn't do before him. Does that put Vettel in the same league as Max?

Max, Lewis and Alonso all occupy the very top tier.
Hamilton is having hard times with Russell and Merc, Alonso is just old and past his prime also. If you put those guys in to the fastest car, so it would be Red Bull. Max is known for his ability to adapt very sharpy and oversteer car, so Hamilton and Alonso would have even harder times against Verstappen. If Hamilton can't match Russell's speed at the moment, how the hell he would be doing that in the Red Bull against Max?
Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:Hamilton is having hard times with Russell and Merc, Alonso is just old and past his prime also. If you put those guys in to the fastest car, so it would be Red Bull. Max is known for his ability to adapt very sharpy and oversteer car, so Hamilton and Alonso would have even harder times against Verstappen. If Hamilton can't match Russell's speed at the moment, how the hell he would be doing that in the Red Bull against Max?
Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.
Hamilton had a WCC stolen by fia 3 years ago. He has a crappy car and you judge his skill.

Jurgen von Diaz
Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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dialtone wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
dialtone wrote: Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.
Hamilton had a WCC stolen by fia 3 years ago. He has a crappy car and you judge his skill.
Hamilton getting older and skills are still there or not, but the fact is that this is his second time he is having hard times with Russell. Can't say he would be ready in new enviroment against Verstappen in Red Bull.

TimW
TimW
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Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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dialtone wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 am
Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari.
What year exactly was that? :wink:
dialtone wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 am
Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.
By what point tally exactly did he dispatch Button over their three years together at McLaren? :wink:
Last edited by TimW on Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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You're aware that they are, yet again, using different setups on Lewis and George's cars? We're 3 races in and Lewis had a reliability issue in at least one of them. Hardly a reliable sample size!!

Besides, why do you need to compare them at the same time? Surely you take each driver in their prime and use that as your metric??

xaero
xaero
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:24 am
dialtone wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:Hamilton is having hard times with Russell and Merc, Alonso is just old and past his prime also. If you put those guys in to the fastest car, so it would be Red Bull. Max is known for his ability to adapt very sharpy and oversteer car, so Hamilton and Alonso would have even harder times against Verstappen. If Hamilton can't match Russell's speed at the moment, how the hell he would be doing that in the Red Bull against Max?
Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.
3 years back only Verstappen almost cried against Hamilton. Give him a car capable of fighting and he will take fight any day to Verstappen or anyone.
We need a miracle. We need only one racing lap.

Jurgen von Diaz
Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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xaero wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:24 am
dialtone wrote: Have you been following since last year? Hamilton beat Alonso in his prime. Hamilton competed against Schumacher in his dominant Ferrari. Button and Rosberg are both world champions that he easily dispatched.

For now what we know about Max is that he was about even against Sainz in the Toro Rosso. Sainz a bit better in quali and definitely more unlucky in the race reliability-wise. Other than that Max hasn’t had any really good teammates for considerable time.
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.
3 years back only Verstappen almost cried against Hamilton. Give him a car capable of fighting and he will take fight any day to Verstappen or anyone.
Okay, so now it is about the car? Last 3 years Verstappen has crushed everything, Hamilton not even his teammate. Firstly Hamilton should be dominating Russell before we can even discuss Verstappen vs Hamilton. People are pretending that Hamilton would be still in his prime. It's quite clear that you don't beat Verstappen if you are not in your prime.

Tiny73
Tiny73
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Silly season 2024-2025

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:24 am
xaero wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:24 am
You are telling what Hamilton has done 17 years ago. You can't say Hamilton is in his prime any more. Hamilton should be smashing Russell if we consider putting him against Verstappen and managing it.
3 years back only Verstappen almost cried against Hamilton. Give him a car capable of fighting and he will take fight any day to Verstappen or anyone.
Okay, so now it is about the car? Last 3 years Verstappen has crushed everything, Hamilton not even his teammate. Firstly Hamilton should be dominating Russell before we can even discuss Verstappen vs Hamilton. People are pretending that Hamilton would be still in his prime. It's quite clear that you don't beat Verstappen if you are not in your prime.
Belittling Hamilton’s achievements doesn’t elevate Max’s. The usual trope is that anyone could’ve done what Hamilton did in that Merc but Verstappen’s car is a 3 wheeled shed and he’s a driving god. In identical machinery Max lost to RIC.

If you look at Nico Rosberg now he talks of Hamilton as the no.1 driver ever. Why? Because it elevates his single championship win. The reality is that unless there is a car on the grid that can match the RB and Hamilton is in it, we’ll never know how they’d match up.