Silly season 2024-2025

[CHT]

I hope Geely buys into Alpine F1 team (as they have done with other businesses of Renault) and Zhou gets to drive for them while the rebuild on the next 100 race plan.

Geely is already a substantial shareholder at Aston Martin

Geely also are substantial shareholders of Mercedes, but Renault would be the easiest route into F1 if they choose to.

AM is a low hanging fruit for Geely and a product that will compliment Geely current portfolio.
The only challenge I see is Saudi oil money from Aramco.

[Watto]

Best case for Sainz is VER going to Mercedes and him replacing VER at RBR .. but the prospect of him going against HUL, PER, or RUS, are all pretty great.

I really thought that a top team would eat him up considering his form, but I guess teams look at more than just the last 4/5 races when making this type of decisions.

This is not going to happen in the short term.

“I think everyone wants him, only I think Max is right for the moment,” (Jos) Verstappen said, as quoted by RacingNews365.nl.

“He has a fast car, but we also have to look further to 2026, so we are letting everything come to us at the moment. We stay very calm and see what will happen.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... verstappen

They (team Max) haven't seen eye-to-eye with Horner about PU and they want out on time

Wasn't Marko a supporter of RBPT too though? He iirc played a key role in the decision with Horner to not want the Porsche deal to go through. Having a board to deal with has been very much against how RB have operated for years so Horners and Markos positions become far more complex.

[Vanja #66]

Wasn't Marko a supporter of RBPT too though? He iirc played a key role in the decision with Horner to not want the Porsche deal to go through. Having a board to deal with has been very much against how RB have operated for years so Horners and Markos positions become far more complex.

Marko has a history of spewing nonsense all the time. In his world, he's playing mind games. So honestly, sometimes I'm not sure he's sure what his opinion on a certain subject is. Whatever suits him at the time I guess...

[Watto]

Wasn't Marko a supporter of RBPT too though? He iirc played a key role in the decision with Horner to not want the Porsche deal to go through. Having a board to deal with has been very much against how RB have operated for years so Horners and Markos positions become far more complex.

Marko has a history of spewing nonsense all the time. In his world, he's playing mind games. So honestly, sometimes I'm not sure he's sure what his opinion on a certain subject is. Whatever suits him at the time I guess...

Yes, I certainly agree there. Which is why I am hesitant on any leaks about Hornergate - think there are all self interested leaks from all sides on that.


But think Markos standing at the motorsport advisor for DM, plus if he had to deal with Red Bull without DM and the influence of Porsche wanting their say I doubt he had any major influence with Porsche there.

[Vanja #66]

Yes, I certainly agree there. Which is why I am hesitant on any leaks about Hornergate - think there are all self interested leaks from all sides on that.


But think Markos standing at the motorsport advisor for DM, plus if he had to deal with Red Bull without DM and the influence of Porsche wanting their say I doubt he had any major influence with Porsche there.

I think Marko wanted to keep Honda onboard and Horner, with RBR having already made massive investments in RBPT, insisted they keep going according to plan. Thais agree with him and so it was...

[Watto]

Yes, I certainly agree there. Which is why I am hesitant on any leaks about Hornergate - think there are all self interested leaks from all sides on that.


But think Markos standing at the motorsport advisor for DM, plus if he had to deal with Red Bull without DM and the influence of Porsche wanting their say I doubt he had any major influence with Porsche there.

I think Marko wanted to keep Honda onboard and Horner, with RBR having already made massive investments in RBPT, insisted they keep going according to plan. Thais agree with him and so it was...

id have to go check but I think Dietrich approved the RBPT before his passing after some pushback from Horner and Marko. Originally RBPT was to develop with Porsche an engine for 2026, that deal fell over and RBPT went it alone with now some help from Ford. The decision to partner with Ford was after Dietrich passing but as best I recall - and perhaps reluctantly- approved the full fledged engine (as well as a new wind tunnel) engine was approved by him not the Thais


I don’t think Horner or Marko ever wanted Honda to leave but that was out of their control they walked away RB negotiations allowed them to keep using Honda engines, Honda later did a U turn and wanted F1 again.

[Vanja #66]

id have to go check but I think Dietrich approved the RBPT before his passing after some pushback from Horner and Marko. Originally RBPT was to develop with Porsche an engine for 2026, that deal fell over and RBPT went it alone with now some help from Ford. The decision to partner with Ford was after Dietrich passing but as best I recall - and perhaps reluctantly- approved the full fledged engine (as well as a new wind tunnel) engine was approved by him not the Thais


I don’t think Horner or Marko ever wanted Honda to leave but that was out of their control they walked away RB negotiations allowed them to keep using Honda engines, Honda later did a U turn and wanted F1 again.

RBPT was necessary to form due to Honda announcing F1 departure in late 2020, so RBPT would take over Honda PU manfucature until 2026. Since then, Honda decided not to go, Porsche talks went bust and somewhere in there RBR decided to go it alone. I guess for one side of RBR, Honda's indecissivness was too much and a signal not to rely on anyone but themselves.

[JordanMugen]

AM is a low hanging fruit for Geely and a product that will compliment Geely current portfolio.

But Lotus and Aston Martin directly overlap? Especially with the intention to move Lotus away from pure sports more into prestige sporting luxury like Aston Martin, Porsche and Maserati. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.

With disruption at Red Bull Racing could Alpine-Renault, or Lotus-Renault under Geely ownership, make the move to sign Max Verstappen for 2026 as part of the plan for the team to win championship titles?

[Watto]

id have to go check but I think Dietrich approved the RBPT before his passing after some pushback from Horner and Marko. Originally RBPT was to develop with Porsche an engine for 2026, that deal fell over and RBPT went it alone with now some help from Ford. The decision to partner with Ford was after Dietrich passing but as best I recall - and perhaps reluctantly- approved the full fledged engine (as well as a new wind tunnel) engine was approved by him not the Thais


I don’t think Horner or Marko ever wanted Honda to leave but that was out of their control they walked away RB negotiations allowed them to keep using Honda engines, Honda later did a U turn and wanted F1 again.

RBPT was necessary to form due to Honda announcing F1 departure in late 2020, so RBPT would take over Honda PU manfucature until 2026. Since then, Honda decided not to go, Porsche talks went bust and somewhere in there RBR decided to go it alone. I guess for one side of RBR, Honda's indecissivness was too much and a signal not to rely on anyone but themselves.

RBPT may have also been required because Poresche did not have the facilities to to buld their own engine - they could have looked elsewhere in the VW brand for that. - Or just been using the Audi engine

According to this article Horner, Marko and Newey were against the 50/50 partnership

We know that Red Bull Racing CEO Christian Horner, motorsport advisor Helmut Marko, and chief technical officer Adrian Newey saw red flags with the kind of 50/50% partnership that Porsche thought it would be getting. So the delay in finalising the 2026 regulations may have meant there was more time for them to lobby against it – and win the argument.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/how- ... -collapse/


I am sure though if Honda never pulled the pin RBR would never had gone down this path they did a fair bit of negotiating to keep using Honda engines

Orignally I believe you are correctit was to build the Honda engines under licence.

But then there was the grey areas of would RBPT quality for any benefits new engine builders would qualify for us they were building Hondas engines.Build/Design was a grey area so they managed to get Honda to keep building them in Japan.

[Vanja #66]

I am sure though if Honda never pulled the pin RBR would never had gone down this path they did a fair bit of negotiating to keep using Honda engines

Orignally I believe you are correctit was to build the Honda engines under licence.

But then there was the grey areas of would RBPT quality for any benefits new engine builders would qualify for us they were building Hondas engines.Build/Design was a grey area so they managed to get Honda to keep building them in Japan.

Yup, exactly

[Vanja #66]

So with Newey definitely out of RBR F1, will Max go to Mercedes a year early to try and bring some people from RBR with him?

Will this open the door of RBR seat to Sainz jr?

Come on Toto, do one thing right and complete the merry-go-round

[chrisc90]

So with Newey definitely out of RBR F1, will Max go to Mercedes a year early to try and bring some people from RBR with him?

Will this open the door of RBR seat to Sainz jr?

Come on Toto, do one thing right and complete the merry-go-round

I think there would have to be something seriously wrong in RBR for Max to do that. Especially when the RB20 is the class of the field.

Max might just stop F1 altogether and focus on his project for Porsche super cup where he is setting up a team

[Watto]

Eddie Jordan thinks Newey will likely take some time away from F1 before he dives straight into something else

[Xyz22]

Eddie Jordan thinks Newey will likely take some time away from F1 before he dives straight into something else

I mean at least 1ish year of time off considering he will work only on the RB17 from now on.

[chrisc90]

I think by time Adrian can work on the new regulations, too much time will have passed to be truly effective. IF he joins another team