2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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r85
r85
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Location: Munich, DE

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Agreed. Ferrari and McLaren will probably be a tenth closer to Red Bull IF their upgrades are better than what Red Bull bring to Imola.

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sphere3758 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:41 am
Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 9:32 am
Sphere3758 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 7:34 am


I am yet to be convinced by the McLaren upgrade. I don’t think they were much faster than the Ferrari with 0 upgrades. It was a race where track position was key and having free air had a big advantage.

The well timed safety car left Lando with the best tyres at the end, while both Max and especially Charles were on old tyres which they had to restart.

Carlos was relatively close in lap times to Lando at the end and I don’t even consider him the reference driver for Ferrari to judge performance .

So, the 4 tenths number sounds audacious. They were not 4 tenths slower than Ferrari before, the gap was around a tenth/ 1.5 tenths.
Sainz was faster than Piastri in the half upgraded McLaren, enough to pass, yet the fully upgraded McL in the hands of Norris was faster than Sainz. Only a big upgrade would explain such a performance difference.

As for Sainz not being the "reference driver", might need to re-evaluate that considering he was catching Leclerc at the end. Leclerc was on slightly older tyres, but deg was almost zero.
I dont remember a recent occurance where Piastri matched Lando's race pace, so quantifying the upgrade using their pace differential is not a sound argument imo.

Charles spent a big portion of the last stint around 2s behind Max, trying to protect his tyres by not getting too close. His pace in relatively free air, that Carlos had after he passed Piastri, might have been better. Lets also not forget that he had to "restart" his hard tyres twice : behind the VSC and the SC.

Anyway, historical data makes Leclerc the reference driver for Ferrari. The same way that Lando is the reference driver for McLaren.
My point does not rely on Norris and Piastri being equally fast. Norris was a solid second faster than Piastri on the restart. Some of that is driver, a small bit of it was tyres, and a decent chunk of it would no doubt be the upgrade. 0,4s is not unreasonable at all IMO, given Piastri also had a few bits on his car.

As for Sainz and Leclerc. Data would suggest they've been quite evenly matched in the SF24, and that they were so in this race as well. Both stints were very close on pace. Holding out hope that Leclerc has another 2-3 tenths in the bag strikes me as delusional when it's disregarding the times in the race in favour of "historical data". He clearly didn't have that pace here relative to Sainz.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:59 am
Sphere3758 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:41 am
Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 9:32 am

Sainz was faster than Piastri in the half upgraded McLaren, enough to pass, yet the fully upgraded McL in the hands of Norris was faster than Sainz. Only a big upgrade would explain such a performance difference.

As for Sainz not being the "reference driver", might need to re-evaluate that considering he was catching Leclerc at the end. Leclerc was on slightly older tyres, but deg was almost zero.
I dont remember a recent occurance where Piastri matched Lando's race pace, so quantifying the upgrade using their pace differential is not a sound argument imo.

Charles spent a big portion of the last stint around 2s behind Max, trying to protect his tyres by not getting too close. His pace in relatively free air, that Carlos had after he passed Piastri, might have been better. Lets also not forget that he had to "restart" his hard tyres twice : behind the VSC and the SC.

Anyway, historical data makes Leclerc the reference driver for Ferrari. The same way that Lando is the reference driver for McLaren.
My point does not rely on Norris and Piastri being equally fast. Norris was a solid second faster than Piastri on the restart. Some of that is driver, a small bit of it was tyres, and a decent chunk of it would no doubt be the upgrade. 0,4s is not unreasonable at all IMO, given Piastri also had a few bits on his car.

As for Sainz and Leclerc. Data would suggest they've been quite evenly matched in the SF24, and that they were so in this race as well. Both stints were very close on pace. Holding out hope that Leclerc has another 2-3 tenths in the bag strikes me as delusional when it's disregarding the times in the race in favour of "historical data". He clearly didn't have that pace here relative to Sainz.
There is a very small amount of useful data for both Sainz and Leclerc in terms of pure race pace for the 2024 season.

In Bahrain Leclerc had a significant issues regarding the brakes, negatively impacting his pace in the race
In Jeddah Sainz didn't race
In Australia Leclerc was stuck behind the McL at the start and was put on a suboptimal strategy (in terms of pure laptime) to get track position on Norris (which worked)
In Suzuka Leclerc started way back, was stuck behind traffic and once again run a suboptimal strategy to gain positions (which worked)

Even China was partially compromised by the traffic in the first stint and Sainz had tyres 4 laps older in the second stint.
In Miami, both Leclerc and Sainz were stuck behind Piastri in the first stint. Leclerc then had tyres 8 laps older in the second stint, while Sainz spent multiple laps behind Piastri once again.

I agree that specifically in Miami there wasn't a huge difference between the pace of the two drivers (even though we don't have a reliable benchmark due to what happened in the race), but it is also true that historically, on average, Leclerc has been quicker.

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Even with those caketins and the ugly HP logo the F1 75 still looks good. She deserved a better fate 🥲

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:35 pm

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sidenote but the cars have gotten so unbelievably ugly since 2021, the new rules tried to make the cars look retro but they just look fat, the high noses are ugly, the oversized front wings are ugly, the curved noses are ugly, the wheel covers are ugly and 90% of the grid is black cars. Now we're adding these mudflap things into the equation. Not a good time in F1 looks wise

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I was hoping HP would accept white logos and the blue was just a special occasion.
The wheels covers look terrible.

Not even the halo looked this bad.

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yooogurt
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:39 am

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I can accept a logo with white theme on the rear wing, but on the front it's a mess, looks so bad.
FORZA FERRARI!

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 11:48 am
Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:59 am
Sphere3758 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:41 am


I dont remember a recent occurance where Piastri matched Lando's race pace, so quantifying the upgrade using their pace differential is not a sound argument imo.

Charles spent a big portion of the last stint around 2s behind Max, trying to protect his tyres by not getting too close. His pace in relatively free air, that Carlos had after he passed Piastri, might have been better. Lets also not forget that he had to "restart" his hard tyres twice : behind the VSC and the SC.

Anyway, historical data makes Leclerc the reference driver for Ferrari. The same way that Lando is the reference driver for McLaren.
My point does not rely on Norris and Piastri being equally fast. Norris was a solid second faster than Piastri on the restart. Some of that is driver, a small bit of it was tyres, and a decent chunk of it would no doubt be the upgrade. 0,4s is not unreasonable at all IMO, given Piastri also had a few bits on his car.

As for Sainz and Leclerc. Data would suggest they've been quite evenly matched in the SF24, and that they were so in this race as well. Both stints were very close on pace. Holding out hope that Leclerc has another 2-3 tenths in the bag strikes me as delusional when it's disregarding the times in the race in favour of "historical data". He clearly didn't have that pace here relative to Sainz.
There is a very small amount of useful data for both Sainz and Leclerc in terms of pure race pace for the 2024 season.

In Bahrain Leclerc had a significant issues regarding the brakes, negatively impacting his pace in the race
In Jeddah Sainz didn't race
In Australia Leclerc was stuck behind the McL at the start and was put on a suboptimal strategy (in terms of pure laptime) to get track position on Norris (which worked)
In Suzuka Leclerc started way back, was stuck behind traffic and once again run a suboptimal strategy to gain positions (which worked)

Even China was partially compromised by the traffic in the first stint and Sainz had tyres 4 laps older in the second stint.
In Miami, both Leclerc and Sainz were stuck behind Piastri in the first stint. Leclerc then had tyres 8 laps older in the second stint, while Sainz spent multiple laps behind Piastri once again.

I agree that specifically in Miami there wasn't a huge difference between the pace of the two drivers (even though we don't have a reliable benchmark due to what happened in the race), but it is also true that historically, on average, Leclerc has been quicker.
Leclerc was passed by Piastri in the first stint, who then followed behind Verstappen at around 3 seconds for the remainder. We can hardly pretend he was being badly held up then when he was passed by the same car. Anyways, you can always find some piece of nuance to avoid comparison, but that's just deflection. Based on quali and the races this season there's no evidence Leclerc has had a gap of any significant kind to Sainz. Most of the time both of them have been able to benchmark the car, as was the case in Miami.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:05 pm

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 12:48 pm
Xyz22 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 11:48 am
Cs98 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 10:59 am

My point does not rely on Norris and Piastri being equally fast. Norris was a solid second faster than Piastri on the restart. Some of that is driver, a small bit of it was tyres, and a decent chunk of it would no doubt be the upgrade. 0,4s is not unreasonable at all IMO, given Piastri also had a few bits on his car.

As for Sainz and Leclerc. Data would suggest they've been quite evenly matched in the SF24, and that they were so in this race as well. Both stints were very close on pace. Holding out hope that Leclerc has another 2-3 tenths in the bag strikes me as delusional when it's disregarding the times in the race in favour of "historical data". He clearly didn't have that pace here relative to Sainz.
There is a very small amount of useful data for both Sainz and Leclerc in terms of pure race pace for the 2024 season.

In Bahrain Leclerc had a significant issues regarding the brakes, negatively impacting his pace in the race
In Jeddah Sainz didn't race
In Australia Leclerc was stuck behind the McL at the start and was put on a suboptimal strategy (in terms of pure laptime) to get track position on Norris (which worked)
In Suzuka Leclerc started way back, was stuck behind traffic and once again run a suboptimal strategy to gain positions (which worked)

Even China was partially compromised by the traffic in the first stint and Sainz had tyres 4 laps older in the second stint.
In Miami, both Leclerc and Sainz were stuck behind Piastri in the first stint. Leclerc then had tyres 8 laps older in the second stint, while Sainz spent multiple laps behind Piastri once again.

I agree that specifically in Miami there wasn't a huge difference between the pace of the two drivers (even though we don't have a reliable benchmark due to what happened in the race), but it is also true that historically, on average, Leclerc has been quicker.
Leclerc was passed by Piastri in the first stint, who then followed behind Verstappen at around 3 seconds for the remainder. We can hardly pretend he was being badly held up then when he was passed by the same car. Anyways, you can always find some piece of nuance to avoid comparison, but that's just deflection. Based on quali and the races this season there's no evidence Leclerc has had a gap of any significant kind to Sainz. Most of the time both of them have been able to benchmark the car, as was the case in Miami.
What a strange thing to say. The relative performance between two cars can change during a race. For example a specific car (or even a specific driving style) can require more time to warm up the tyres. Using this approach would also indicate that Leclerc was way better than Sainz at managing tyres as he dropped him by as far as 2s in the first stint, while is possible that Sainz simply started managing more on purpose.

Leclerc was easily keeping up with Piastri and staying easily in DRS. This for example wasn’t the case with Max in the second stint. Being able to stay consistently in DRS likely indicate that Leclerc had more pace in free air and the same for Sainz.

dia6olo
dia6olo
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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From formu1a.uno
"FERRARI EXCLUSIVE: HERE'S WHAT'S NEW ON THE SF-24 2.0"
https://formu1a.uno/it/esclusiva-ferrar ... sf-24-2-0/

"The floor will be revised in its entirety, with solutions that could be defined as "interesting" in relation to the internal drifts of the Venturi entrances. If everything goes as well as they hope in Maranello, the step should be around 15 overall load-efficiency points, which would mean 3 tenths per lap, with an even more ambitious target in terms of race pace. The so-called "base" version of Cardile's car was created to offer a wider scope for development, and what we will see at Imola will be a more advanced version of the concepts initially adopted on the SF-24."
Last edited by dia6olo on Thu May 09, 2024 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CouncilorIrissa
CouncilorIrissa
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:35 am

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Crap, the hype is starting to get to me.

I don't remember being this excited for the next race in god knows how long. I'll either be ecstatic or disappointed :P

Sphere3758
Sphere3758
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I will take the rest of the year off from work if this means a Leclerc title charge from Imola lol. Time to travel !

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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This is the biggest upgrade package Ferrari has worked on since i'd say 2012. In recent years, they have never brought a massive package to a single race weekend. The Spain update last year was an outlier as the goal was to start getting real track data on the downwash concept.

I can't wait to see the changes and the impact on car behavior. It will be a very significant test for the Technical team as well now that is completely under the leadership of Enrico Cardile.

Space-heat
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 2:28 pm
This is the biggest upgrade package Ferrari has worked on since i'd say 2012. In recent years, they have never brought a massive package to a single race weekend. The Spain update last year was an outlier as the goal was to start getting real track data on the downwash concept.

I can't wait to see the changes and the impact on car behavior. It will be a very significant test for the Technical team as well now that is completely under the leadership of Enrico Cardile.
Too much hype. One hope is that, it was mentioned in the first formula uno article on the overbite, that the RBR engineers Ferrari traded for Laurent Mekies (Ferrari were apparently already on the concept) they were able to input. Hopefully, they might have acted as a sanity check on the new direction from their experience in RBR.

I can not wait for Imola, but more nervous than anything for the implosion that will happen if they only deliver 1-2 tenths now that the bar has been raised. I would have felt much better if this ForumlaUno article dropped next week after the filming. Be interesting to see if their is a less enthusiastic brief next week to rein in expectations.

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falonso81
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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So the updated car did not run today?