European GP 2009 - Valencia

[StrFerrari4Ever]

Yeah i agree with DaveKillens i watched the IRL race and it was thrilling the first lap crash then those last 6laps were breathtaking drivers being forced into mistakes spinning and nudging each other it was brilliant stuff as for Valencia
No real close racing cars are sometimes 1.5seconds faster but when they get to the car they can't really get through unless they get a very good run or have that KERS on their car so OWG need to get down to buisness again because this lack of action is starting to bother me even as a die hard F1 fan whose never missed a lap of every race i've watched even if its a flippin procession i watch it till the very end the end being the credits
But Spa is going to be different the weather , the circuit , the drama it's never managed to disappoint. Red Bull KERS rumour well me as a Red Bull fan i'd want them to run anything that will prevent them being mugged on the run to Eau Rouge or being overtaken on the Kemmel straight but if their new car isn't really optimised for running it i'd say leave it and let the cars performance do the work.
But you never know Mr Newey could've worked on something his one who doesn't stop working so we could be in for a surprise in the next few races heard of a major upgrade for Singapore so we will have to wait and see.

[sknguy]

I have to agree that this valencia circuit produces boring races. I'm not sure how much of a challenge it presents to the cars, or the drivers. It is defeinitely a very impressive layout given its urban setting, it's almost clinical in appearance. Maybe that's the problem. It's too easy. But... it's tough to make a challenging street circuit.

[timbo]

It's too easy. But... it's tough to make a challenging street circuit.

You don't think Monaco or Singapore is challenging? And actually I think it IS challenging - but in a much different way than say Silverstone or Spa. You don't have to work balancing your car but you need to be extremely precise and you must have very sharp sense of speed. You always know you did fast corner well, but in slow corners it is much harder to get a feel of whether you are improving or not.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, yes. Then the question is:

How can you, with such high-tech cars, excellent drivers and a track well designed (I insist, under the circumstances) produce such uncompetitive races?

My answer has always been this: the cars are over-designed.

Conclusion: the downforce is excessive.

Corollary (after watching this season results): Formula One is a race of cars, not one of drivers. It's like horse racing: the winner is the horse, not the jockey!

[De Jokke]

Funny how all the hami-haters and bari fans praise barri's effort.
Okay the man drove a good race but he got the win handed by mclaren's fault, not because of own strength. Anyone who doesn't see that is plain dumb. Hami had 4.2sec of a gap and was increasing it. He lost 4-5seconds in the pits (13.4sec pitstop) and was regaining time (6.7=>4.7sec) after the 2nd stop even before barri lifted the pace(4.7 => 2.3sec).

It's as clear as it can be. I'm utterly disappointed in Whitmarsh who has proven to be a bad loser and was blaming the pace of the car for losing the race. [-X

Fact is: F1 is always linked to luck, and on sunday it was on barri's side.

[nudger]

dont quite understand your point of view Dejoke...mclaren didnt have the pace to win...simple as.
Brawn had them covered whatever they did...the pit stop blunder had it not happened would not have got him ahead. had it not happened rubens would have just stayed out a lap or two longer and got past no worries.
i dont know if it was just rubens in the zone, but he was certainly quicker by more than enough to win.

[De Jokke]

dont quite understand your point of view Dejoke...mclaren didnt have the pace to win...simple as.
Brawn had them covered whatever they did...the pit stop blunder had it not happened would not have got him ahead. had it not happened rubens would have just stayed out a lap or two longer and got past no worries.
i dont know if it was just rubens in the zone, but he was certainly quicker by more than enough to win.

Hami had 4.2sec of a gap and was increasing it. He lost 4-5seconds in the pits (13.4sec pitstop) and was regaining time (6.7=>4.7sec) after the 2nd stop even before barri lifted the pace(4.7 => 2.3sec).

It's as clear as it can be. I'm utterly disappointed in Whitmarsh who has proven to be a bad loser and was blaming the pace of the car for losing the race.

Fact is: F1 is always linked to luck, and on sunday it was on barri's side.

[ISLAMATRON]

A lap or 2 longer and do what? run out of fuel?

anyways, these discussions should be made in the race thread, not in the MP4/24 development thread.

[chasefreak]

Did lewis end up racing with the front wing that he broke in fp2? From the press conference it seems that he struggled a bit with the tires during the race...i think the lack of running during fp2 and fp3 might have been the reason why they seemingly made the wrong decision to use the super softs for the first 2 stints

no lewis did not use the new front wing
he used the same wing that was at the race he won

[Ray]

This circuit would be more suited to GT cars.

V8 Supercars immediately sprang to mind. THAT would be awesome. F1 cars do not need to be at that venue. It's not entertaining.

[PNSD]

De Jokke - After the fuel stopped flowing to Hamiltons car, it took no more than 4 seconds to be released.

Think about it, he lost 4-5seconds max. Lewis came out 6-7 behind anyway.

Barachello was slower in the final stint because he didnt need to go quick! he was taking it easy whilst managing a good gap still.

If you want to know how fast he could have gone, take a look at Jensons laps and compare them to the pushing Hamiltons! Jenson was by far the quickest man on track until he decided to take it easy.

[Roland Ehnström]

Funny how all the hami-haters and bari fans praise barri's effort.
Okay the man drove a good race but he got the win handed by mclaren's fault, not because of own strength. Anyone who doesn't see that is plain dumb. Hami had 4.2sec of a gap and was increasing it. He lost 4-5seconds in the pits (13.4sec pitstop) and was regaining time (6.7=>4.7sec) after the 2nd stop even before barri lifted the pace(4.7 => 2.3sec).

It's as clear as it can be. I'm utterly disappointed in Whitmarsh who has proven to be a bad loser and was blaming the pace of the car for losing the race. [-X

Fact is: F1 is always linked to luck, and on sunday it was on barri's side.

Fact is that both Rubens and Lewis drove excellent races, as did Kimi (though it's difficult to compare since he doesn't have a "real" team-mate at the moment - perhaps Massa would have been able to fight for the win?). Lewis was unlucky this time, but it doesn't mean you can't praise Rubens for one of his best drives of his career. Second place is damned good anyway for Lewis and McLaren, considering how dead slow they were only a few races ago. They've made fantastic progress this season - far more impressive than Alonso/Renault's of last season.

For sure there is a big luck element in F1 as in most sports, but luck has a tendency of evening out over time. For example Lewis was lucky to win the championship in 2008 but unlucky to lose it in 2007. Luck is part of the thrill of sports, if the best man always won it would be rather boring to watch.

[Roland Ehnström]

How can you, with such high-tech cars, excellent drivers and a track well designed (I insist, under the circumstances) produce such uncompetitive races?

My answer has always been this: the cars are over-designed.

Conclusion: the downforce is excessive.

Corollary (after watching this season results): Formula One is a race of cars, not one of drivers. It's like horse racing: the winner is the horse, not the jockey!

I think Luca Badoer proved that the "jockey" has something to do with it too...

Even the best driver can't win in a bad car, and a bad driver can't win even in the best car. You need to have a good driver AND a good car to win.

The lack of overtaking is mostly due to three facts:

1) The best drivers generally drive the best cars.

2) The fastest cars/drivers start in front of the slower cars/drivers.

3) The cars on the front of the grid are generally on lighter fuel-loads than the cars behind (I'm so glad we'll get rid of this next season!).

Think about it: If you place the best driver in the best car, give him a lighter fuel load than the rest AND let him start from pole-position, how much overtaking do you expect to see?

[megz]

None? Is that the right answer?

[Richard]

anyways, these discussions should be made in the race thread, not in the MP4/24 development thread.

+1

Also, to make matters worse, some of the posts are identical in both this thread and the race thread. [-X