2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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jambuka
jambuka
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Is it time that the team accepts their suspension design which they decide to pursue and were quite vocal that suspension is not that important, while is good, is less performant?

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Those things need to be explored scientifically not based on emotions. Like they did in 2023.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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jambuka wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:14 pm
Is it time that the team accepts their suspension design which they decide to pursue and were quite vocal that suspension is not that important, while is good, is less performant?
I dont think we're in any position to point to exactly what the issue(s) are.

We can only point out the obvious, that the team has not been able to fix their issues and improve their competitiveness to the degree that others have.

We're still not miles away, but we're 4th best now. That's still going backwards ultimately. It will require stringent internal analysis to figure out any way forward.

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Its quite bonkers you are 2-3 tents away and again you gonna about end as 4th team :D That's craaazy
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

FeelHeel
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Not going to join the funeral dirge that so many others are playing. It’s possible the team needs some time to learn how to get the best out of this latest upgrade. The team needs to consider whether or not they’re going too fast with these upgrades. Several packages of changes and porpoising is still a problem?
Cardile and his team need to look in the mirror and ask themselves how the F24 became the fourth fastest car. And consider how Mercedes now threatens to best us.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man, but he was not a good man.
— Phil Hill

Emag
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:20 pm
Those things need to be explored scientifically not based on emotions. Like they did in 2023.
I don't think an entire team of professional engineers carries decisions through purely based on emotions ...
They would have had actual reasons for sticking with their design concept.

f1316
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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It is interesting that neither Checo nor Oscar are comfortable with their cars. Makes me wonder how much on a knife edge a car has to be to be quick around here in these regs and whether the very benign platform Ferrari shot for this year - while better than last - just leaves a bit of performance on the table and that an edgier car, in the right hands, can be quicker.

Space-heat
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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The bouncing is a concern but it may be something that can be eliminated with the right set up that will be found with more time with the update without having to compromise.

On the gap, it seems Norris and VER both got a tow on their last run (Max more than Lando). If, buts and maybe but from F1 tempo it seems the tow was worth (relative to Charles) about 1.7 tenths for Max and 0.8 tenth for Lando, build in Charles' mistake (tenth @ T5) and the gap to the front is 2 tenths to Lando and 0.5 tenths to Max. I know this is the definition of clutching at straws but trying to see some positivity given the general doom posts.

Charles has greater straightline speed than Max or Lando but seems similar to George and Lewis so overtaking could be challenging. Ferrari have a new set of softs, as people mentioned, so maybe the gamble is to start on the soft and try to clear the Mercs early. If they are going to try the undercut regardless it makes sense. Otherwise the worry is Max and Lando will drive off into the distance.

Espresso
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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f1316 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:40 pm
It is interesting that neither Checo nor Oscar are comfortable with their cars. Makes me wonder how much on a knife edge a car has to be to be quick around here in these regs and whether the very benign platform Ferrari shot for this year - while better than last - just leaves a bit of performance on the table and that an edgier car, in the right hands, can be quicker.
The Most optimal vehicle is always on the brink of instability. Just look at the fighter jets.
Same account for cars. An optimum between straight line and cornering behavior needs a car on the knifes edge. Those pilots handling this can extract the most speed out of a car.
Leclerc has to find his confidence. The car has shown speed. It’s now up to the drivers to extract it.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:24 pm
Its quite bonkers you are 2-3 tents away and again you gonna about end as 4th team :D That's craaazy
During the season, one of the most common talks about upgrades is "it's not about how much we gain, it's how much we gain more than the others".

We are more than three tenths away in a track where we had accelerated updates, that was supposed to suit our car, and where the team has admitted that qualifying was actually going to be our STRONG point, meaning we're likely to fall even farther behind in the race, and ever moreso if it rains.

The point is - we're going backwards. This is a representative track and we're 4th best. The points situation isn't calculated based on time gaps, but on results. If even podiums are a hard reach going forward, things are quite bad.

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Espresso wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:50 pm
f1316 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:40 pm
It is interesting that neither Checo nor Oscar are comfortable with their cars. Makes me wonder how much on a knife edge a car has to be to be quick around here in these regs and whether the very benign platform Ferrari shot for this year - while better than last - just leaves a bit of performance on the table and that an edgier car, in the right hands, can be quicker.
The Most optimal vehicle is always on the brink of instability. Just look at the fighter jets.
Same account for cars. An optimum between straight line and cornering behavior needs a car on the knifes edge. Those pilots handling this can extract the most speed out of a car.
Leclerc has to find his confidence. The car has shown speed. It’s now up to the drivers to extract it.
The idea that the drivers are the problem is insane.

Autobahn303
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Espresso wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:50 pm
f1316 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:40 pm
It is interesting that neither Checo nor Oscar are comfortable with their cars. Makes me wonder how much on a knife edge a car has to be to be quick around here in these regs and whether the very benign platform Ferrari shot for this year - while better than last - just leaves a bit of performance on the table and that an edgier car, in the right hands, can be quicker.
The Most optimal vehicle is always on the brink of instability. Just look at the fighter jets.
Same account for cars. An optimum between straight line and cornering behavior needs a car on the knifes edge. Those pilots handling this can extract the most speed out of a car.
Leclerc has to find his confidence. The car has shown speed. It’s now up to the drivers to extract it.
Being to confident in a car that lacks grip or balance will only send you into the gravel or into the barrier.

JPower
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Watched the Q3 onboards going through T14.

Both drivers working the wheel while Red Bull/McL/Merc sail right through. Car looks visibly more difficult than the others.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Fer.Fan wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:07 pm
Ferrari and we can’t blame tyre heat-up issue. Car was just to slow.
Things are what they are, a couple of hundreds meant P3 or P6 and those hundreds would have turned the other way in different conditions and the gap to RB and McL would have been smaller. It's an inherent character of the car as an over-correction to the deg situation of last year and this is a kind of issue that you don't have when you have a good all-round car from last year. The team understands this and despite of italian media and fan hype they never succumbed to unreal expectations
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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As soon as I saw that the floor roof was lowered with the new upgrades I thought of the possibility of porpoising. I've not read what exactly Sainz said, but if he actually mentioned porpoising then of course it's the explanation for their huge lift compared to others in the high speed section. That's a big time loss.

But I'm not worried. The team just needs to find out the optimal setup to shut off the porpoising again. It's been a big upgrade package overall (Imola and Barcelona combined).

Another thing which Sainz said was the characteristics of the track which partly are similar to China and Suzuka and that it was not a surprise that they struggled (or something on those lines) because these type of corners are the weak point of the car. So I guess he means the long radius corners? If yes, I wonder how to solve that and whether they addressed these issues with the current upgrades already or it will happen later in the season.

The colder track didn't help either.