Red Bull RB20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
miguelalvesreis
miguelalvesreis
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Anyone saw the article on GP confidential regarding RB suspension
Seems that they had a complex system with up to 3 reservoirs and with latency on charge and discharge cycles, with goal to keep ride height constant
FIA disassembled it circa Miami GP and ordered the latency system to be removed
It was the moment Domenicalli mentioned that RB dominance was not to last

1st time I heard about this

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marcel171281
marcel171281
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Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:08 am

Re: Red Bull RB20

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miguelalvesreis wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:04 pm
Anyone saw the article on GP confidential regarding RB suspension
Seems that they had a complex system with up to 3 reservoirs and with latency on charge and discharge cycles, with goal to keep ride height constant
FIA disassembled it circa Miami GP and ordered the latency system to be removed
It was the moment Domenicalli mentioned that RB dominance was not to last

1st time I heard about this

Enviado do meu RMX3572 através do Tapatalk
Don't believe a single word. McLaren closed the gap in Miami after their upgrade, and the gap didn't really change in Imola. Also the rest of the field hasn't come much closer. The reduced lead of the RB20 lines up perfectly with the McLaren upgrade (and also to some extent the Mercedes and Ferrari upgrades) and much less with this story.

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AMG.Tzan
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Location: Greece

Re: Red Bull RB20

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Any guesses as to what makes this car lose so much pace every time in the last stint??

It’s probably weight going down but what exactly does weight affect that makes the car lose so much performance? Suspension setup?

And I’m saying “so much” cause basically Max goes from gaining 0,2-0,5 sec (depending on the track) in the first stint to losing the same in the last stint! That’s almost a 0,5-1,0 sec of performance swing…
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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mwillems
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:58 pm
Any guesses as to what makes this car lose so much pace every time in the last stint??

It’s probably weight going down but what exactly does weight affect that makes the car lose so much performance? Suspension setup?

And I’m saying “so much” cause basically Max goes from gaining 0,2-0,5 sec (depending on the track) in the first stint to losing the same in the last stint! That’s almost a 0,5-1,0 sec of performance swing…
Can it be tied directly to weight with such a dominant qualifying performance?

Today it felt like it was more to do with how comfortable the car was on the different compounds.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

marcel171281
marcel171281
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Maybe just track evolution. Norris complained a lot about understeer in the first part of he race, while Verstappen had a reasonable balance. Very well posible that the grip levels changed and came more toward the McLaren and evolved away form the Red Bull. And once you are in DRS, you are along for the ride.

venkyhere
venkyhere
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:17 am

Re: Red Bull RB20

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:58 pm
Any guesses as to what makes this car lose so much pace every time in the last stint??

It’s probably weight going down but what exactly does weight affect that makes the car lose so much performance? Suspension setup?

And I’m saying “so much” cause basically Max goes from gaining 0,2-0,5 sec (depending on the track) in the first stint to losing the same in the last stint! That’s almost a 0,5-1,0 sec of performance swing…
Deg was indeed bad for RB20 yesterday. What confuses me even more is the explanation for the 'setup-change' between Sprint and Quali, made by Marko+Horner - "it was for race pace".

The notion that it's the aero-imposed stiff suspension that causes accelerated tyre wear, seems more likely, with every passing race. The RB20 is kind to tyres when there is lots of fuel, and becomes progressively worse as fuel load burns out. It's been the case since Miami (could see it even before the bollard mashing incident that destroyed rear underfloor).

Full tank fuel + aero load => the total pre-loading in the springs is keeping the tyres happy when subjected to varying impacts from the road - bumps, dips and kerbs. The moment fuel load is removed, the total preloading becomes lesser and springs are way too stiff to keep the tyres happy in relation to the varying impacts from the load => glaringly evident in slow speed ckts like Monaco, the chicane kerbs in Imola/Canada etc - tyres aren't pressed back enough into the ground during rebound, even resulting in actual bouncing ("jumping like kangaroo"). This doesn't affect in high speed corners even if kerb riding is involved, as the pre-loading is back to necessary levels thanks to the aero-press at high speed.

And because the stiffness of suspension is imposed due to floor design and ride -height windows, this might not be something that can be solved by 'development' - this very likely is a baked-in limitation coming from the RB19-->RB20 design change.

Just a theory.
chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:23 pm
Wouldn’t explain the gap in qualifying though would it?
Good point. I was waiting for someone to ask :D
Again, theory :
1. Q is on soft tyres, and deployment is designed to 100% drain the battery in one lap => speeds are higher, downforce is higher, aero-press on suspension is higher.
2. Being Q, tyres never get 'old enough' for enough reduction in surface friction to expose the limitation from the suspension.

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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AMuS

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Luscion
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Can't see anything new but they have done that before for Thursday pitstop practice

Luscion
Luscion
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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https://x.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1808897770985505204
Details of the new Red Bull vertical inlet introduced in Barcelona
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Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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The FW flap adjusters are back outboard.

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Spacepace
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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miguelalvesreis wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:04 pm
Anyone saw the article on GP confidential regarding RB suspension
Seems that they had a complex system with up to 3 reservoirs and with latency on charge and discharge cycles, with goal to keep ride height constant
FIA disassembled it circa Miami GP and ordered the latency system to be removed
It was the moment Domenicalli mentioned that RB dominance was not to last

1st time I heard about this

Enviado do meu RMX3572 através do Tapatalk
Do you have an article about this?

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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No big upgrade package after all Image

KimiRai
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Re: Red Bull RB20

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Rikhart
Rikhart
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:21 pm

Re: Red Bull RB20

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I don't know what they found in Austria, but maybe they want to validate it further before introducing the added variables of an upgrade package? Makes sense to me.