High Nose cars fastest at SPA... Why?

[gcdugas]

A speed difference, for two identical cars, from 326 to 328 km/h correlates to roughly 13 Hp, when based on 700.

I wonder how much flat-out power can differ between today's engines, say between a Mercedes and a Toyota?

Or simply a better exit out of the turn leading into the straight...

[gcdugas]

I seriously doubt if Windsor knows much more about F1 engineering than Flavio?

Anyway:
So top speed at Spa was 328 km/h, that's 204 mph for you with English as your mother-tongue, by Adrian Sutil.

Given this is achieved with 530 kW (720 Hp), imagine that we add 60 kW KERS to that, speed would only jump to 340 km/h.

An xtra 12 km/h for 80 Hp, at these speeds you don't get much bang for the buck.

Don't forget the KERS can only run for 6 sec/lap when doing your calculations.

[xpensive]

a) Terminal speed is always when air-resistance balances max propulsion force.

b) Only six sec, no ---?

[Saribro]

b) Only six sec, no ---?

6.67s, assuming a full 400kJ stored and a full 60kW utilised for the duration.
Feel free to assume anything inbetween :).

[mike]

Peter Windsor was saying during the weekend that in layman terms, at initial design desicions teams decide whether they aim for a car strong at generating high downforce, or a car strong at aero efficiency.

The aero efficient cars were the ones shown to be strong at lower downforce tracks such as Spa, and soon Monza.

i think to read more into it is that the front end plate of the 09 cars basically means that you either have to push the air to the outside of the wheel or push the air into the wing and to the tyre thats why high DF cars have low efficiency. The only cars that performed well in both situations is Ferrari and Redbull.

i think is mainly due to KERS for Ferrari and that there is report that the slot in the end plate is no longer there for the spa race, i still have no idea what it does, and Redbull should have very good aero efficiency.

[spacepig]

a) Terminal speed is always when air-resistance balances max propulsion force.

You still have to have enough straight to reach it, which you seldom do. Unless you're on a 2+ mile oval.

[xpensive]

At Spa I think you do. But in either case, the above was just a draft xample to illustrate how little you gain from a few xtra Hp at those speeds. There are more things to it as well, as downforce and rolling resistance increases with speed.

Simplified; Power is Force times Speed and Force is C times Speed squared, where C is Cv * Area times air-density over two.

Btw, I do think I have a good grasp of the KERS systems, please study earlier KERS-threads on the subject.

[PlatinumZealot]

Even Adding 5 km/hr to your top speed can make a world of difference to the lap time. Even if the power is "wasted" but think there is a balance to how much you use it to increase top speed and how much you use it to accelerate out of turns.

Somebody do 2 sample calculations.. one about using top speed to shave time.. and one about using acceleration to shave time.

[xpensive]

I don't think you can differentiate the two, as soon as the driver can but the power down, he's using what he's got all the way, though propulsion force will taper off according to Power over Speed.

[Pedro]

Badoer was super fast thru the trap because he had no ideas to brake for the next corner... it will do wonders for trap speeds.

That is not quite true. Badoer was too long couple times in Les Combes but speed-trap is just behind Eau Rouge (Radillon). There is no need to brake for a long time as long straight follows after Eau Rouge. Check official map with marked sectors and speed-trap position:
http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html

The reason why Badoer's top speed was completely out-of-bounds is that he used KERS driving through Eau Rouge while McLarens and Raikkonen used it just behind first corner (La Source). Badoer could be also dragged behind other car (which I could not confirm yet, still searching for a video that lap).

[ISLAMATRON]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

[Pedro]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

I'm sorry I didn't get it

I tried to explain his top speed trapped in Spa by the end of my last post.

[Ruy]

Maybe high noses are better for "feeding" the diffuser?

As the diffuser is more efficient (downforce/drag), that would explain an advantage when you run less wing.

[siskue2005]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

maybe Ferrari were running Monza spec aero for BAD??

[Scotracer]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

The trap is at the top of Radillon, no where near Les Combes...he either must have used KERS going up Eau Rouge or got a massive tow (or perhaps there was a glitch in the system like at Bahrain).