2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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214270
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Besides 19/20 when they went off at turn 1 and started battling the McL, and 37/38 where VER reduced the gap by 2s prob due to some calamity, thats a whole bunch of VER red for laptime across the 1st two stints compared against HAM. I don’t understand how anyone is claiming the bulls were faster.

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And the S were clearly inferior across that final stint vs. H or M - too much load at Silverstone the tyre has to handle; you carefully manage wear or you Swisscheese the tyres.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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214270
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Mosin123 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:37 pm
justin2102 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:02 pm
i have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Firstly at that stage of the race Lewis was on used soft tires and i think it has been pointed out already that it wasn't a good race tire compared to the hards and they is no foubt thst the w15 with Lewis behind the wheel heck even George would have been faster or just as fast as the RB20 and i have to disagree with your George statement and we have this race to prove. Had the whole race been dry, I have no doubt that George would have won that race based on his pace on the first few laps because the closest Lewis got in the dry was probably 1.3 sec and Max was on the verge of being gapped by 5secs before the rain hit.
by like lap 6, LH was lapping faster than GR. just saying
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

Dunlay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Mosin123 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:37 pm


by like lap 6, LH was lapping faster than GR. just saying
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
:) I didn't say George was faster. He had the same pace as Lewis, but was trying to keep the tyres whereas Lewis was hustling to get into DRS window and George was keeping him out. Positions reversed, George and Lewis would be doing the same.

r85
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Mosin123 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:37 pm


by like lap 6, LH was lapping faster than GR. just saying
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
I think so too. Lewis maintained a 1.6s gap to Verstappen in Imola 2020 and nearly overcut Bottas and Verstappen after they changed tyres. It's just two instances, but 1.5 /1.6s looks like a decent gap to maintain tyre temperatures, get a little slipstream and be close enough for an undercut.

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214270
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:20 pm
214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
:) I didn't say George was faster. He had the same pace as Lewis, but was trying to keep the tyres whereas Lewis was hustling to get into DRS window and George was keeping him out. Positions reversed, George and Lewis would be doing the same.
No not really. A good chunk of laps early in favour of RUS, opening up the gap to 1.5s; then a few laps where HAM was faster before rain began to fall and some unevenness. There’s no real call & response trade of laptime between the two; HAM never really pressured DRS until he took out a sec in 1 lap.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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214270
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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r85 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:48 pm
214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
I think so too. Lewis maintained a 1.6s gap to Verstappen in Imola 2020 and nearly overcut Bottas and Verstappen after they changed tyres. It's just two instances, but 1.5 /1.6s looks like a decent gap to maintain tyre temperatures, get a little slipstream and be close enough for an undercut.
Yep, same in Barcelona this yr too. Maintain a small gap until such a time as to make a +ve move (NOR overtaking RUS being the catalyst).
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

justin2102
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2448/wTr6pi.png These are the lap times before the rain hit. Though some laps where by small margins, There are 10 instances in which George posted a faster lap time.
Edit: Shov during the race debrief has also pointed out they started managing the water leak issue in the first stint

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:25 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:17 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:15 pm


I think the soft was just the worst tyre to be on at that point. If Lewis had gone to the hard, I have no doubt he would have been faster than max.
Soft tyres, in this case the C3 tyre, generally have a much lower operation window than H tyres, in our case C1.

So based on track conditions in the last 13 laps or so (26 degrees C track temp and a green track) your best option on both grip and working window point of view is (almost) always the S tyre.

In VER's case, he/the team had opted for the C1/H tyre due to overheating the C2/M tyres in the first stint when he was at full speed trying to keep pace with the Mercedes drivers in front, coz his car setup was towards to dry race and particularly towards the H tyre one, the main race tyre for a one-stop M-H strategy had it would have been a dry race. If he was on the pole on Sunday he would have run in clean air and thus could be able to manage better the C2/M tyre for sure not to overheat them ...
What a shame he didnt have the pace to take pole, or be fast enough on the medium tire in the first stint. The RB was easily the third fastest car at Silverstone.
Nico Rosberg, a straight shooter, disagrees with your conclusion.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:20 pm
214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.
That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
:) I didn't say George was faster. He had the same pace as Lewis, but was trying to keep the tyres whereas Lewis was hustling to get into DRS window and George was keeping him out. Positions reversed, George and Lewis would be doing the same.
Quicker drivers like a 2 second to 2.5 second buffer or even four seconds! to prevent any surprise undercuts.
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☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
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Dunlay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:21 am
Dunlay wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:20 pm
214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 pm

That makes no sense & frankly you have it backwards. If RUS is genuinely faster there would be no stall in the gap. The fact it stayed at 1.5/1.6s for such a long time suggests HAM simply dropped out of the range that would compromise his tyres and sat there.
:) I didn't say George was faster. He had the same pace as Lewis, but was trying to keep the tyres whereas Lewis was hustling to get into DRS window and George was keeping him out. Positions reversed, George and Lewis would be doing the same.
Quicker drivers like a 2 second to 2.5 second buffer or even four seconds! to prevent any surprise undercuts.
Would Mercedes have allowed an undercut between their two drivers? :)

Sevach
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Dunlay wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:08 am
Would Mercedes have allowed an undercut between their two drivers? :)
Back when they used to run 1-2 all the time they didn't.

Tvetovnato
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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1,5 seconds is way too small for it to be controlled. One small slip and it’s DRS instantly, as happened when the rain came. No, Hamilton wouldn’t be allowed an undercut, but he would likely have extended and been a lot quicker in the final stint as usual in these situations. George will see more of this now as they are both likely to qualify within a position of each other if they can keep the car competitive.

Dunlay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Tvetovnato wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:24 am
1,5 seconds is way too small for it to be controlled. One small slip and it’s DRS instantly, as happened when the rain came. No, Hamilton wouldn’t be allowed an undercut, but he would likely have extended and been a lot quicker in the final stint as usual in these situations. George will see more of this now as they are both likely to qualify within a position of each other if they can keep the car competitive.
The way the field is bunched up currently, if Lewis runs longer, then he would potentially come out behind the McLarens and Max (assuming a situation where George is ahead of them). That's the race position gone for Lewis! In his attempts to pass them, he would have to cook his tyres. We are not in 2014-2020 era where there are 2 drivers from the dominant Mercedes competing. There are a lot of variables that would play a role.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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214270 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:08 pm

...

I don’t understand how anyone is claiming the bulls were faster.

...

Image


Can you see it now? It`s all about the last 10 laps of the race :D ...
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atanatizante
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:25 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:17 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:15 pm


I think the soft was just the worst tyre to be on at that point. If Lewis had gone to the hard, I have no doubt he would have been faster than max.
Soft tyres, in this case the C3 tyre, generally have a much lower operation window than H tyres, in our case C1.

So based on track conditions in the last 13 laps or so (26 degrees C track temp and a green track) your best option on both grip and working window point of view is (almost) always the S tyre.

In VER's case, he/the team had opted for the C1/H tyre due to overheating the C2/M tyres in the first stint when he was at full speed trying to keep pace with the Mercedes drivers in front, coz his car setup was towards to dry race and particularly towards the H tyre one, the main race tyre for a one-stop M-H strategy had it would have been a dry race. If he was on the pole on Sunday he would have run in clean air and thus could be able to manage better the C2/M tyre for sure not to overheat them ...
What a shame he didn't have the pace to take pole, or be fast enough on the medium tire in the first stint. The RB was easily the third-fastest car at Silverstone.
Shov during the race debrief also pointed out that the main reason they opted for the S tyre was that they wanna undercut NOR, presumably knowing how powerful is this here:

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