Mercedes 'to buy stake in Brawn GP'

[Pup]

I don't know if that will matter. Mclaren's supercar has a BMW engine

Mercedes is more of a luxury brand, with performance being part and parcel to all their vehicles. Mercedes and Ron Dennis (we never hear that name anymore, sad) would be smart to continue their relationship in the new Mclaren Road Car startup. The pedigree of Mercedes engines in the Mclaren would be good for Mclaren's image, and good for Mercedes pocketbook.

I wonder how their lines will overlap?

Has it been confirmed that the new car will have a BMW engine, too? The last rumor I saw was that it would be branded McLaren, but no one knew for sure who'd be making it. I guess we'll know in the next few days.

As for overlap, I'd say the AMG SL's for sure, and the new AMG SLS also.

[axle]

I doubt very much that the engine will come from outside the Daimler Group. My guess is that the MP4-12C (P11 Project) will be the AMG 6.2L V8 seen in the C63-SL63. It's a mighty engine and would surely propel it up the road at a frightening pace.

Don't forget this is *only* a £150k car. It won't have an exotic one of a kind...however if it doesn't feature the AMG 6.2 V8 then I expect it to be the first user of a new mass produced V8-V12... The weight of the engine will no doubt be key to its use.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mclaren-p11.html
Word has it that the P11 is taking aim at the Ferrari F430 Scuderia and the Porsche GT2 and will use a Mercedes AMG-sourced 6.2-liter V8 making 550 horsepower. Although the engine will be sourced from AMG, it is believed that Mahle — the company that took over Cosworth — will build the engine. That power will be sent to the rear-wheels and the car should be capable of sub-4 second 0 to 60 runs, as well as a top speed over 200 mph.

I don't know if that will matter. Mclaren's supercar has a BMW engine

Mercedes is more of a luxury brand, with performance being part and parcel to all their vehicles. Mercedes and Ron Dennis (we never hear that name anymore, sad) would be smart to continue their relationship in the new Mclaren Road Car startup. The pedigree of Mercedes engines in the Mclaren would be good for Mclaren's image, and good for Mercedes pocketbook.

I wonder how their lines will overlap?

Has it been confirmed that the new car will have a BMW engine, too? The last rumor I saw was that it would be branded McLaren, but no one knew for sure who'd be making it. I guess we'll know in the next few days.

As for overlap, I'd say the AMG SL's for sure, and the new AMG SLS also.

[ESPImperium]

Personally, i think it’s only a good thing for Mercedes to gain a stake in Brawn GP, wither it be shareholdings and or as an equity partner.

I also think it also could be part of a possible Mercedes cost cutting idea, as Brackley has a engine manufacturing plant as part of the Brawn GP estate, and could move the whole Mercedes Benz High Performance Engines facility from what is the old Ilmor plant to the Brawn GP site and cut costs as they wont have the up-keep of that site to worry about.

Also, its also a political stance to make sure that they have more leverage in FOTA primarily, and also a thing to poke at McLaren when they need to/want to.

I also think that Mercedes have also realised that they have made a massive mistake, as the marketing machine at Stuttgart haven’t got much F1 marketing out of McLaren this year and they are seeing the Brawn GP car powered by their Mercedes engine win, and get more coverage than the McLaren in both TV and print media, and are feeling that they should have offered Brawn X Dollar for the Mercedes Benz logos and branding to be put on the engine covers and on the nose of the car.

All in all, i think there’s political, marketing and manufacturing cost cutting and cost factors in this more than probable decision from the guys at Stuttgart to invest, what i would only think would be a similar amount of money that they do in McLaren in Brawn GP. That could mean that Brawn GP could become around $77million a year richer in cash sponsorship and around $60million a year better off in technical support each year.

One thing is for sure, this is fast becoming the most expensive mistake that Honda will ever make. As the team they once used to own, the team many said wouldn’t last the year, let alone into the second seemingly has the support to last the 09 season, and has seemingly secured its long term future in the sport.

[Lookup75]

Mercedes said at the beginning of the year they were not going to take advantage of the engine deal and slap Mercedes badges all over the car. They didn't want to appear opportunistic.

I wonder, if they close a deal with Brawn before the year is out, will the potential championship winning car have a big Silver Arrows at season end?

I hope they do close a deal a Brawn, It's got to be said again what a great job Brawn are doing this year

[axle]

well there you go instantly proved wrong. It is a bespoke engine, can't workout if it's a McLaren or Mercedes effort though...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/defau ... ryId=20577
Power for the new supercar comes from a bespoke 3.8-litre M838T engine, coupled to a seven-speed dual clutch gearbox. The engine features a flat-plane crankshaft, and a dry sump so it can be placed low in the chassis. It whacks out a meaty 600hp at 8,500rpm, and there's also 443lb ft of torque to play with, 80 percent of which is delivered from 2,000rpm.

The dual-clutch gearbox has a trio of performance settings, as well as launch control, while gears are selected by an F1-car style rocker shifter that pivots in the centre of the wheel - pull right for upshifts, left for downshifts - with a 'first pressure' function that prepares the gearbox for the next shift, a bit like using the pre-focus on a digital camera.

I doubt very much that the engine will come from outside the Daimler Group. My guess is that the MP4-12C (P11 Project) will be the AMG 6.2L V8 seen in the C63-SL63. It's a mighty engine and would surely propel it up the road at a frightening pace.

Don't forget this is *only* a £150k car. It won't have an exotic one of a kind...however if it doesn't feature the AMG 6.2 V8 then I expect it to be the first user of a new mass produced V8-V12... The weight of the engine will no doubt be key to its use.

Anyway back on topic....

[Conceptual]

I'm surprised that the Brawn hasn't sported a Silver Arrow since Australia simply to show gratitude for the immense work Mercedes did to get their engine into the car, and working well.

Also, I don't think that there is a single other car on the grid that doesn't have engine branding on it... And it is referred to as the "Brawn Mercedes" anyways... So a 5 inch emblem shouldn't be too much of a big deal.

What I am saying is that I am more surprised that Brawn hasn't just put one on, more than I am that Mercedes hasn't asked for one to be put on...

Moving the MHPE to Brackley could seriously guarantee long term support for the Brawn team, but what happens when the formula changes to a 4 cylinder turbo in the coming years? One has to wonder if a Mercedes engine would be preferrable to a Honda unit on that configuration...

[Giblet]

I don't know if that will matter. Mclaren's supercar has a BMW engine

Mercedes is more of a luxury brand, with performance being part and parcel to all their vehicles. Mercedes and Ron Dennis (we never hear that name anymore, sad) would be smart to continue their relationship in the new Mclaren Road Car startup. The pedigree of Mercedes engines in the Mclaren would be good for Mclaren's image, and good for Mercedes pocketbook.

I wonder how their lines will overlap?

Has it been confirmed that the new car will have a BMW engine, too? The last rumor I saw was that it would be branded McLaren, but no one knew for sure who'd be making it. I guess we'll know in the next few days.

As for overlap, I'd say the AMG SL's for sure, and the new AMG SLS also.

You are putting words in my mouth. I was just saying that the BMW motor outlines the fact that Mclaren make cars not engines, and will go to the best place to get them they can. I never thought or said the new Mclaren road cars will have them, as I know nothing about them.

[Pup]

Sorry about that. Since you were using the present tense, I assumed you meant the MP4-12C, and not the F1.

[sticky667]

Mercedes to take 75 pct stake in Brawn

FRANKFURT, Sept 9 (Reuters) - Mercedes has agreed to take a 75 percent stake in Formula One leaders Brawn GP within the next three years, German magazine Auto, Motor und Sport reported on Wednesday.

Citing Formula One sources, it said the partners had reached an oral agreement and a contract would be signed soon.

There was no comment on the report from Mercedes or Brawn, with team officials heading for Monza for this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

The magazine said the deal would give the German carmaker, who own 40 percent of McLaren and also supply Brawn and Force India with engines, control of a Formula One team for the first time in the modern era.

Mercedes has an exclusive contract with McLaren until 2011, so the unit of Germany's Daimler AG (DAIGn.DE) plans to have major investor Aabar AABAR.AD of Abu Dhabi hold the stake in Brawn in the meantime, the report said.

It quoted Daimler Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche as saying he would not rule out such a move.

"Our partners don't have only the finances, but also a big emotional interest in automobiles and especially our brand. If we wanted to change anything with our Formula One commitment then we could certainly speak with Abu Dhabi," he said, according to the magazine.

British-based Brawn emerged from the former Honda team earlier this year after a management buyout led by former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn. Honda had announced in December that they were quitting the sport for financial reasons.

The team won six of the season's first seven races with Britain's Jenson Button.

Abu Dhabi has taken an increasingly high profile in the sport, hosting a race for the first time this year with the season-ending grand prix on Nov.1 at the new Yas Marina circuit.

The government-owned Mubadala investment fund also has a five percent stake in Ferrari. (Reporting by Michael Shields, editing by Alan Baldwin)

[BreezyRacer]

I have to say that I'm a little floored that Brawn would sell off a 75% stake that quickly/easily. I wonder, could this have a been something that was roughed out at the time Brawn bought Honda's F1 team interest?

[WhiteBlue]

Nice prospect for Nico. he could be the star for the three pointed star in the next decade.

Merc could eventually drop the other silver car and focus on something they own.

[Fil]

This all seems to be a matter of convenient timing.

2011 - McLaren Automotive MP4-12C launches in 2011, featuring in-house engine
2011 - McLaren-Mercedes exclusive F1 partnership ends
2012 - Mercedes takes controlling stake in BrawnGP in 2012
2012 - McLaren becomes an in-house F1 engine manufacturer..? (perfect marketing/brand leverage for McLaren Automotive.. =D> )

[qw56q]

This all seems to be a matter of convenient timing.

2011 - McLaren Automotive MP4-12C launches in 2011, featuring in-house engine
2011 - McLaren-Mercedes exclusive F1 partnership ends
2012 - Mercedes takes controlling stake in BrawnGP in 2012
2012 - McLaren becomes an in-house F1 engine manufacturer..? (perfect marketing/brand leverage for McLaren Automotive.. =D> )

does this mean we can get rid of silver?

[xpensive]

I have to say that I'm a little floored that Brawn would sell off a 75% stake that quickly/easily. I wonder, could this have a been something that was roughed out at the time Brawn bought Honda's F1 team interest?

To the best of my understanding, Brawn didn't buy anything from Honda, he was for some obsure reason handed the team on a silver platter, along with cash to run it for a year.

[Pup]

One thought I've had, and I'm not even sure if I believe it myself, is this - now that we know that the engine in their new road car was designed by McLaren (probably built by Mahle), the dynamic between McLaren and Mercedes gets a bit interesting, to say the least. So what if it's not Mercedes that's abandoning McLaren (assuming they are), but McLaren who are abandoning Mercedes?

Bear with my logic here - if it was Mercedes who had refused to supply the engine for McLaren's new car, why wouldn't McLaren have just gone somewhere else, like BMW, instead of going through the trouble and risk of designing their own lump? And now that McLaren are in the engine business, why on earth would they want to advertise a competitor's engine in their F1 car? Essentially, it comes down to this, if Dennis wants to model his road car company after Ferrari, why wouldn't he do the same with the F1 business?

It would be a huge risk, but then that's familiar territory for Dennis, isn't it. Not to mention that it would satisfy his maniacal obsession for control.

Thoughts?