Mercedes 'to buy stake in Brawn GP'

[xpensive]

Makes sense pup, in particular if you recall McLaren's relation with Ilmor, which is now on its own again.

An in-house F1 engine designed by Mario Ilien, how about that?

[WhiteBlue]

It makes a lot of sense for McLaren to have their own engine. They took the plunge 2 years ago not to do this project with Mercedes. The conceptual differences were to big to arrive at a compromise. Merc wanted a front engined car and McLaren a mid engined.

Based on that fundamental decision to become competitors in a niche market for supercars it would be rather strange to have a Merc engine in the car. Probably both parties had no intention to keep an overlap particularly after the Chrysler experience. Nobody in his right mind would repeat the mistakes Merc made there. So not using any Merc components including no engine is very logical.

I also agree that the present ties will probably become much looser after 2011 when the current exclusivity contract expirers. The whole separation was more or less anticipated when Dennis and Ojjeh sold their 30% to Mumtalakat instead of Merc. Merc is pursuing a good opportunity to shift their works plate in preparation for McLaren dedicating their F1 effort to promoting their road cars.

[Pup]

I agree. Dennis selling those shares to Mumtalakat right in the middle of all the talk about Merc taking over McLaren 100% was quite a shocker.

I'll be interested to see how the battle goes between the MP4-12C and the SLS. My guess is that the McLaren will be the better performer, but the Merc is far and away the better looking car. Stunning, actually.

Funny how they were unveiled on the same day.

Well, at the end of the day it looks like I'll have two teams to root for from now on.

[axle]

FWIW McLaren's goals for the road car couldn't be completed with a Merc engine...there is no 3.8L V8TT.

Though it's officially a McLaren engine is possible it's designed by Merc's HPE division. Farming out work to other company's is common place.

At one time 75% (volume) of all road cars had parts designed by Lotus in them...

[xpensive]

From what I've heard it's developed by cCsworth, which is owned by Mahle, of which Mercedes is a big customer,

[Pup]

That's what I've read, too. It might be important to note that this is the 'other' Cosworth (which I believe just goes under the Mahle nameplate now) and not the Cosworth that will be providing race engines next year. It's the former road car division.

[Pup]

Here's an interview with Dennis that settles for me the question of what's happening with Mercedes - I think they are definitely headed to another team, and McLaren are definitely going it alone. The kicker is halfway through where Ron is talking about Ferrari being the only team that still exists from when he entered the sport, and how their new car represents the start of their own similar dynasty...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZg_R33Mnqo[/youtube]

[Conceptual]

Well, now we know where the wind tunnel time went that caused the shortfall in the aero on the MP4-24...

Was there a McLaren F1 car that was named the MP4-12? I remember the 4-18 to the 4-24, and I know Murray did the MP4-4, so I am reasoning that there was a car on the F1 grid in the 90's (1997?) named the MP4-12? Here it is... http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/799

I just find it odd that they didn't name it the MP5-1 or something...

Cool car tho!

[WhiteBlue]

MP4 is the personal brand for Ron Dennis's own ventures. 12 is the vehicle performance category in McLaren's internal nomenclature and C stands for Carbon body shell.

A bit of a dumb scheme marketing wise but whenever did Ron care as long as his personal dream is expressed. I don't think the car sales will profit from the name. It's Ronspeak in marketing communication.

[xpensive]

With McLaren as a Ferrari-type car manufacturer, perhaps it only make sense that their racing activities should be engine-wise independent as well. There are reports that the 3.8 turbo V8 was developed by Cosworth, but I think Mario Ilien's operation is a more likely partner future-wise.

Not necessarily F1 though.

[megz]

It makes a lot of sense for McLaren to have their own engine. They took the plunge 2 years ago not to do this project with Mercedes. The conceptual differences were to big to arrive at a compromise. Merc wanted a front engined car and McLaren a mid engined.

Isn't the Pagani Zonda powered by Mercedes 6.0 - 6.2L V12? Or is this all irrelevant considering the only real supercar Mercedes had made in a long while was the SLR not so long ago and not intended as a direct competitor to the Zonda and the car wasn't a joint effort between Zonda and Mercedes like the SLR between Mercedes and McLaren?

[axle]

It makes a lot of sense for McLaren to have their own engine. They took the plunge 2 years ago not to do this project with Mercedes. The conceptual differences were to big to arrive at a compromise. Merc wanted a front engined car and McLaren a mid engined.

Isn't the Pagani Zonda powered by Mercedes 6.0 - 6.2L V12? Or is this all irrelevant considering the only real supercar Mercedes had made in a long while was the SLR not so long ago and not intended as a direct competitor to the Zonda and the car wasn't a joint effort between Zonda and Mercedes like the SLR between Mercedes and McLaren?

Zonda F = 7.3L Merc V12.

I think it's good for McLaren to try their hand at doing a whole car...and maybe in the future an F1 engine.

[Vasco]

Well, now we know where the wind tunnel time went that caused the shortfall in the aero on the MP4-24...

Was there a McLaren F1 car that was named the MP4-12? I remember the 4-18 to the 4-24, and I know Murray did the MP4-4, so I am reasoning that there was a car on the F1 grid in the 90's (1997?) named the MP4-12? Here it is... http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/799

I just find it odd that they didn't name it the MP5-1 or something...

Cool car tho!

Yes the 97 car was the MP4/12 and the name of the new supercar is based on this because they are using the same brake steer technology for the supercar that was used on the F1 cars (MP4/12 and MP4/13). This was subsequently banned by the FIA.

[Pup]

I think it's good for McLaren to try their hand at doing a whole car...and maybe in the future an F1 engine.

I think we'll see one in 2012.

[astracrazy]

MP4 is the personal brand for Ron Dennis's own ventures. 12 is the vehicle performance category in McLaren's internal nomenclature and C stands for Carbon body shell.

A bit of a dumb scheme marketing wise but whenever did Ron care as long as his personal dream is expressed. I don't think the car sales will profit from the name. It's Ronspeak in marketing communication.

I read somewhere the whole MP4 was short from 'Marlboro Power' from back in the day. Cant remember why the number 4? Now app. they just say it means 'McLaren Power'