Williams blocking increased brake disc sizes for 2010

[kilcoo316]

That is why the BBC employ Eddie Jordan.



Bad show from Williams IMO.

[King Six]

Can they really do that? And why? Costs?

[ISLAMATRON]

So that their KERS is even that more valuable. Good move by Williams... I hope they really take it FOTA.

I fully expect Williams to be thrown out again.

and yes Costs would increase, as all new wheels might be needed to increase the brake disc size.

[Jersey Tom]

Where would you put them? I'd have to imagine there's very little disc / caliper / wheel clearance as it is.

And what's the need for larger discs anyway?

[kilcoo316]

Can they really do that? And why? Costs?

Don't know why.


It wouldn't be cost related. Having a few destroyed chassis from worn brakes would quickly outweigh the cost of transporting 32mm thick brake discs instead of 28mm.


With the extra fuel (and empty) weight of the cars next year, the brakes are going to take a pounding.



I also read that Williams are considering using KERS next year against the gentlemans agreement made by the rest of the teams (including Williams I believe, so they are considering going back on their word).


Not the first time that the leadership of that team has behaved like assholes...

[ISLAMATRON]

Williams never agreed to FOTA's BS rules, they have allways maintained their right to use KERS next year as per the 2010 rules.

Brakes are obsolete, even the carbon ones, energy regeneration is the future, FOTA needs to get their head out of their asses.

[vasia]

BS rules? All other FOTA teams agreed to no KERS for next year, if Ferrari and McLaren have accepted this, why can't Williams?

Regardless, if Williams is the only one against bigger brake discs they will likely be forced to cave to the pressure of all the other FOTA teams, or risk being kicked out of FOTA again.

[kilcoo316]

Brakes are obsolete, even the carbon ones, energy regeneration is the future, FOTA needs to get their head out of their asses.

Oh wise up!

You wanna run driveshafts from the front wheels and go with old inboard "brakes" (motors/alternators)?

Or do you wanna destroy the unsprung mass of the front suspension uprights by putting motors/alternators out there?




This is the same Williams that agreed to the cost-cap? Yet now they are single-handedly trying to escalate costs? They are a pack of commanches, one of the teams most prone to shitty political games to the detriment of F1 as a whole, they have a long history of such actions. I wouldn't shed a tear if they dissapeared from the grid.



Oh and:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pr ... 0909a.aspx

[ISLAMATRON]

big risk there

the rules mandate unanimous vote to change rules within 1 year... If any team says no then it aint gonna happen.

FOTA fought to keep the 2009 rules for 2010(and beyond) and now they want to change a whole bunch of ---.

And no, not all teams in FOTA voted to get rid of KERS, but FOTA is a majority decision body. So 5 teams can choose the destiny of the whole FOTA.

[ISLAMATRON]

Oh wise up!

You wanna run driveshafts from the front wheels and go with old inboard "brakes" (motors/alternators)?

Or do you wanna destroy the unsprung mass of the front suspension uprights by putting motors/alternators out there

Why not? unsprung mass does not have to change that much... remeber the weight of the "brakes" wouldnt be there anymore. And what is so wrong with inboard brakes? they have inboard shocks & springs... is that wrong too?

This is the same Williams that agreed to the cost-cap? Yet now they are single-handedly trying to escalate costs? They are a pack of commanches, one of the teams most prone to shitty political games to the detriment of F1 as a whole, they have a long history of such actions. I wouldn't shed a tear if they dissapeared from the grid.

How are they trying to drive up costs? Increasing the brake diameter means that the wheels have to change, as do the tires... that would be big money... if it is just thickness, then it might not be as much but it will still cost more.

[vasia]

That's the point, like in many other boards and bodies, majority rules. Common sense really. Does Williams honestly think they will get their way?

Fact is, Ferrari and McLaren in the end accepted the agreement to not use KERS next year.

Let's be clear, FOTA wanted to keep the aerodynamic rules mostly the same for next year, to have some stability in terms of regulations in that sense.

FOTA agreed not to run KERS because the costs for it are huge and KERS has really been a joke of a system. Also with bigger fuel tanks for next year it simply wouldn't be practical to run KERS on a car anyways. I'm not sure what Williams is thinking.

I find it funny that so many people criticize FOTA. The fact is having FOTA is really a great thing because it gives leverage with the FIA, and FOTA is comprised of the teams, not of FIA officials.

[xpensive]

I understand that a 700 kg F1 car can go from 285 to 120 km/h in less than 3 seconds, that is an average of 600 kW.

A 150 kW MGU at each corner? O mama...

[kilcoo316]

Why not? unsprung mass does not have to change that much... remember the weight of the "brakes" wouldnt be there anymore.

A carbon disc weighs very little.

An alternator/motor weights compartively alot, and the gyroscopic effects are also increased.


You happy with the thought of losing all braking capacity if the KERS system throws a wobbly?

And what is so wrong with inboard brakes? they have inboard shocks & springs... is that wrong too?

Archaic. The drive shaft would also require packaging, it would be a significant disrupter to the airflow. Could be done of course, not sure on the cooling requirements.

How are they trying to drive up costs?

I think that is pretty obvious. Even for you in a pigheaded moment!

Increasing the brake diameter means that the wheels have to change, as do the tires... that would be big money... if it is just thickness, then it might not be as much but it will still cost more.

Just disc thickness.

The front wheels are changing anyway as the tyres are becoming narrower on the front.

[ISLAMATRON]

FOTA agreed not to run KERS because the costs for it are huge and KERS has really been a joke of a system. Also with bigger fuel tanks for next year it simply wouldn't be practical to run KERS on a car anyways. I'm not sure what Williams is thinking.

The costs of KERS are not huge, it costs less than what Merc & Ferrari spent on engine upgrades while the engines were to be frozen. And KERS is optional, they dont have to spend the money if they dont want to.

[kilcoo316]

I understand that a 700 kg F1 car can go from 285 to 120 km/h in less than 3 seconds, that is an average of 600 kW.

A 150 kW MGU at each corner? O mama...

Very good point.


The current KERS is a joke in terms of the size needed to dissipate all the energy of an F1 car under braking.