I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

[hollus]

OK, it get’s hard to read minds with those one-liner questions.
Are you saying that women cannot get good at chess, or that women don’t want to be good at chess?
I assumed you meant the first, but maybe not?
Make the point explicitly, please, that would help.

Its the second but I'm struggling to frame it without the world jumping down my throat

Well, it really looked like the first to me., with the goalpost moving reinforcing the feeling. It might explain the strong reactions.

The second version of the statement (most women have no major interest in becoming competitive in the sport) is potentially a very valid point, and one worth discussing. Alonso started at age 3 with a cart bought for his sister, who said “meh” to it.
It might be a mayor factor, it might be a minor factor or it might be a non factor (or a factor following from other factors).

Extremely hard to quantify, though. But perhaps worth trying.

[mwillems]

Edit: misunderstood the point

[woocasz]

OK, it get’s hard to read minds with those one-liner questions.
Are you saying that women cannot get good at chess, or that women don’t want to be good at chess?
I assumed you meant the first, but maybe not?
Make the point explicitly, please, that would help.

Its the second but I'm struggling to frame it without the world jumping down my throat

Well, it really looked like the first to me., with the goalpost moving reinforcing the feeling. It might explain the strong reactions.

The second version of the statement (most women have no major interest in becoming competitive in the sport) is potentially a very valid point, and one worth discussing. Alonso started at age 3 with a cart bought for his sister, who said “meh” to it.
It might be a mayor factor, it might be a minor factor or it might be a non factor (or a factor following from other factors).

Extremely hard to quantify, though. But perhaps worth trying.

Did you read what I wrote about Max`s sister? Thats exactly a major factor, why there is so few women in the motorsport.

[CMSMJ1]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

Whoa now, what part of society are women excluded from? I'm in western Europe like the majority on here I assume.

There is inertia to the existing sports structures but as someone with first hand experience of administration at club level it's totally wrong to say there are opportunities being denied. There are simply fundamental differences between both sexes.

Without being that person - I never said excluded once in my post. There are issues driven by mainly subconscious biases (or overt ones?) but I think the general point stands that were the route for a talented woman to be compared to a talented man then the micro levels of push/pull towards or away from fulfilling that talent would favour the man.

I was rambling a touch, granted, and reckon your note that neing engaged at a club level and recognising the inertia is pretty much in the same way of thought I was putting across. What sport is it that you are involved in?

I disagree with the point on your last sentence - especially in relation to F1 (or just racing?) - there's nothing between the sexes that would prevent a woman having success. If she has the talent then this is (or should be) the end of it?

Chess is interesting - Why are women under represented? Are you a secret grandmaster @hollus?

[mwillems]

It's a multi billion dollar sport, they've gone to great lengths to answer that question, to help make it a multi multi billion dollar sport.



I had a quick check to see if the GenAI summary is accurate and it is, links below.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate ... of%2064%25.

https://rtrsports.com/en/blog/women-and ... nt%20times.

https://www.f1academy.com/Latest/6Rcggc ... cademy-are


But as you can see, the changes are about how something is perceived and how F1 and working to change that perception.

[hollus]

Secret grandmaster? I wish! Low-amateur level at most.

But chess is an interesting study case, being a very competitive discipline with negligible entry barriers and strength requirements.
And maybe it is the answer? At least for those explicitly or implicitly arguing for career biases.
For the people arguing, some explicitly, some implicitly, that women physically can’t? That’s another story.

I did make a big point on chess and india that addresses starting number of players, someone else first brought Judit Polgar up. (She took over from Bobby Fischer as the youngest grandmaster at the time and reached #8 in the world, AND she had an atypical childhood).

In my view, in chess, it is a mixture of starting numbers but also, career persistence and career prospects (and possibly external barrier-biases, but possibly not so). My oldest sister was reasonably good at chess, and got obsessed with it, and then she decided that no, the number of hours spent in chess was not acceptable when she needed to spend them in her university degree instead, and she stopped. Are boys more likely to stick to a dubious career choice? I guess so. Why? Complicated!

But if we find that professional chess has, say, a 1:100 bias towards men, and if we argue that this does not reflect peak individual capacity, but cultural/gender/career choices in that period between 5 year old and 20 year old, then I guess we can take that 1:100 bias to F1 and then apply a further modifier for physical strength (and family support), which probably plays some role?

But I am starting to go in circles myself, and probably should stop before I start spamming.

[Greg Locock]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6720300688

Women in western democracies are vastly underrepresented in chess when compared with ex-communist countries.

[Seanspeed]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6720300688

Women in western democracies are vastly underrepresented in chess when compared with ex-communist countries.

The US: "Women are not suitable for combat roles"

The USSR: "Here's your military grade bra and sniper rifle".

[mwillems]

true, but when every new F1 driver is at least within 2 seconds of the top, one that is 4 seconds (irrelevant of sex) is just not deemed capable. thats how things are as of today. the day a girl can hop in and make similar times, we will talk.

if it hasnt happened in todays age, it is unlikely to happen in the future too

I took that general theme of "A woman was 2s slower than a man when she was last in F1" as accurate, assuming it was checked.

I just checked. Susie Wolff had 2 FP1 sessions that she was entered into in 2014. In the first at the British GP, she was indeed 2 seconds off the next place up.

This fact in itself is accurate.

However it is also quite misleading. It seems to have been missed that her engine died and she didn't do more than one lap in that session, or that she was then in the Hockenheim FP1 session a few races later, where she was 2 tenths off Filipe Massa at Williams and was trading times with him throughout the session, finishing very respectably. Any debutant would be very happy with that time.

She could press pedals and everything! We don't need to talk, but I wanted to highlight your criteria had been met.

[FW17]

[CMSMJ1]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3v5rE0rAM74

That's only relevant if you are a huge lardarse or a small child - that isn't pushing at pedal is it?

[Hoffman900]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3v5rE0rAM74

This is your evidence?

[TimW]

There is more to consider than just the speed over a lap:

• Pit boxes would need to be widened to enable women to park inside the box. For tracks with limited space like Monaco this would be a major obstacle

• Since crash damage falls under the budget cap, the cap would need to be raised for teams fielding female drivers to not put them at a disadvantage

• Special simplified steering wheels would need to be developed, again an issue under the budget cap

• etc.

/s

[CMSMJ1]

There is more to consider than just the speed over a lap:

• Pit boxes would need to be widened to enable women to park inside the box. For tracks with limited space like Monaco this would be a major obstacle

• Since crash damage falls under the budget cap, the cap would need to be raised for teams fielding female drivers to not put them at a disadvantage

• Special simplified steering wheels would need to be developed, again an issue under the budget cap

• etc.

/s

For the avoidance of doubt, we do see this as an attempt at sarcasm/humour. The report will be closed.

On a serious note - have we got past the fact that women are successful in other areas of motorsport -
WEC GTE with the Iron Dames teams (Who have been class winners, pole sitter and multiple podiums)
Indy - back in the day with Danica - winning outright and with Simone de Silvestre having a second as well
Indy NXT - Jamie Chadwick - podium this year just gone - I would lay a long odds bet that were she into Indycar proper that a race win is possible (as that is a very random series to be fair - but you have to be there to take it)

There are plenty of male drivers who will never get a podium when they reach their level and it is clear there are ladies racing, or who have raced that were just better than some of the men.

My contention - there has not yet been the lady with the talent enough to get high enough and get her break. It will come and her sex won't be the thing that matters.

[TimW]

That is what the /s means

But to be honest, I don't think the level is much below the discussion on women's capability to press a brake pedal.....