I know that it is a flat-12 engine, but most of the time people on the internet are saying that it is a boxer engine which would be a little different to a 180 degree V12. Thats why I was wondering if they actually tried the boxer layout, which would have more disadvantages than advantages in this case.Greg Locock wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:50 am'theory'? What on earth do you mean. yes it was a flat 12. It is unlikely that it was a true boxer (7? or 12 crankpins) but I can't find any photos of the crank.
there was never such a thing ....
In my german speaking country we don't have the term "flat-engine", we would call a "flat-12" a V-12, and a "horizontally-opposed" engine a boxer engine. But as you and the colleague already said, using a crankshaft with 12 crank pins would not make any sense, maybe the amount of buzzwords and terms being thrown around the internet was just confusing me.Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 5:35 pmthere was never such a thing ....
boxer's just the stupid German name for what the British stupidly named 'horizontally-opposed'
not different
blame Porsche fans
and why the flipping heck would anyone ever make such an engine ie with 12 crankpins ?
the nonsense started when Ferrari made the first flat-12 that actually won F1 races
so someone invented the nonsense buzzword 180 degree V
yes (if not burdened by air cooling) you always could have had a flat 8 with 4 crankpins eg Tecno F2
anyway, as a colleague said - if it hasn't got eg 2 crankshafts (or equivalent) just call it flat
he was in charge of 20000 hp (Doxford?) engines
Thank you very much for that Information, it is very hard to find people who actually worked with these engines. Im going to look further into it, hopefully with success!saviour stivala wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:39 amThe Subaru F1 12-cylinder engine question as to its crankshaft design configuration. As mentioned that I have read somewhere that somebody from Australia (a Subaru nut) claimed to have acquired spare engines and parts including un machined castings plus design drawings, This, his writing I managed to trace, it was something like five years back at that time, and the forum was ''Koenigsegg nearly having used the Subaru 12'' I have tried to make contact with him without success, His post on that Koenigsegg thread was as follows. ''@Anthonparle7342. lives in Australia and a Subaru nut. 5 years ago, my first purchase was the spare parts from the race team which was 3 engines in bits and a number of unmachined castings. we could build two complete engines and still have a lot of spares''.
Exactly, its astonishing that even car makers misuse the term accidently or willingy, no wonder there's so much confusion around this.Greg Locock wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:51 pmGiven that Ferrari (somewhat famous for their engines, and should know better) called their flat V12 a Boxer, when it wasn't, shows how misused the terminology is. If it's got 6 crankpins it's a flat V12 if it has 12 it's a boxer, and in my whacky reinterpretation if it has two single cylinder crankpins and 5 doubles it might be a boxer.
In Ferrari's defence from wiki "Ferrari engine designer Mauro Forghieri stated "Please, don't call it boxer. Technically, it is correct to say that this engine is a flat-12, or has 12 cylinders with the heads at a vee angle of 180°"
It's marketing then.saviour stivala wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 5:50 pmA car/engine maker does not misuse the term (BOXER or BOXER ENGINE) accidently.
Hi, do you have a link to that forum/post by any chance? I've tried finding it but unfortunately without success.saviour stivala wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:39 amThe Subaru F1 12-cylinder engine question as to its crankshaft design configuration. As mentioned that I have read somewhere that somebody from Australia (a Subaru nut) claimed to have acquired spare engines and parts including un machined castings plus design drawings, This, his writing I managed to trace, it was something like five years back at that time, and the forum was ''Koenigsegg nearly having used the Subaru 12'' I have tried to make contact with him without success, His post on that Koenigsegg thread was as follows. ''@Anthonparle7342. lives in Australia and a Subaru nut. 5 years ago, my first purchase was the spare parts from the race team which was 3 engines in bits and a number of unmachined castings. we could build two complete engines and still have a lot of spares''.
Try trace as follows. ''How Koenigsegg nearly used a Subaru F1 engine in its supercars'' - YouTube drivetrib 26 Jan 2019. the forum-555 comments, @anthonparle 7342 post is 4th post from top.mnauno wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 11:57 pmHi, do you have a link to that forum/post by any chance? I've tried finding it but unfortunately without success.saviour stivala wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:39 amThe Subaru F1 12-cylinder engine question as to its crankshaft design configuration. As mentioned that I have read somewhere that somebody from Australia (a Subaru nut) claimed to have acquired spare engines and parts including un machined castings plus design drawings, This, his writing I managed to trace, it was something like five years back at that time, and the forum was ''Koenigsegg nearly having used the Subaru 12'' I have tried to make contact with him without success, His post on that Koenigsegg thread was as follows. ''@Anthonparle7342. lives in Australia and a Subaru nut. 5 years ago, my first purchase was the spare parts from the race team which was 3 engines in bits and a number of unmachined castings. we could build two complete engines and still have a lot of spares''.