High Nose cars fastest at SPA... Why?

[siskue2005]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

The trap is at the top of Radillon, no where near Les Combes...he either must have used KERS going up Eau Rouge or got a massive tow (or perhaps there was a glitch in the system like at Bahrain).

there was NO glitch in the system at Bahrain
it was Hiekki running wide in that corner, which showed up in the apex speed

[Scotracer]

it was a joke...

but if you do figure out why he was so fast at the trap please let us know... I still say it is the thin, high nose

The trap is at the top of Radillon, no where near Les Combes...he either must have used KERS going up Eau Rouge or got a massive tow (or perhaps there was a glitch in the system like at Bahrain).

there was NO glitch in the system at Bahrain
it was Hiekki running wide in that corner, which showed up in the apex speed

So it was a glitch then...Heikki didn't get the apex and it registered anyway...

[Richard]

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Seconded. Just look at the last two years with high nose Ferrari against low nose McL. Both seasons were neck and neck all the way.

[Super racing]

The STR's went back to the old skinny high noses, but they are still in last place.

We'll see what the RBR bunch does when it is Singapore time.

[xpensive]

Peter Windsor was saying during the weekend that in layman terms, at initial design desicions teams decide whether they aim for a car strong at generating high downforce, or a car strong at aero efficiency.

In all honesty, it's the first time I heard this, is it any truth in that statement or is it just Windsor's usual?

[ISLAMATRON]

Both the RBR teams back to the lower wider noses, and Force India back to the rear of the grid... It sure seems like the high thin nose cars do better on the long straights and the lower wider noses make more DF

[Richard]

Both the RBR teams back to the lower wider noses, and Force India back to the rear of the grid... It sure seems like the high thin nose cars do better on the long straights and the lower wider noses make more DF

How does a silver low thin nose and a certain spanish high wide nose fit into this theory?

[Balt23]

Both the RBR teams back to the lower wider noses, and Force India back to the rear of the grid... It sure seems like the high thin nose cars do better on the long straights and the lower wider noses make more DF

I will start by saying that I agree with the statement that correlation does not mean causation.

Now to address the above quote I think someone mentioned above about the high nose feeding the diffuser better. ISLAMATRON also mentions talk about the lower, wider noses generating more DF.

A wider nose will cause a larger high pressure area above the middle (FIA controlled) section of the wing. This will result in more downforce over the front wing compared to the high, thin nose, which in turn brings with it better front end grip and typically, better low-speed performance. This will also serve to rob the flow of some of its kinetic energy and ability to provide high energy flow to the rear of the car.

Having the high nose will have the opposite effect, "feeding" the rear aero of the car with higher energy flow while not extracting as much energy for frontal downforce. I think what you are seeing is the high nose cars generating better rear DF than the wide nose cars. This is providing good tractive capabilities for acceleration as well as a less drag.

I say less drag because if you aren't using the air at the front to generate downforce, you can focus more on keeping the airflow clean and efficient into the rear of the car.

It would be interesting to look at DF at the front and rear axle (although you would also have to look at the weight balance) and which was more important for SPA/Monza.

Just my 2 cp.

[axle]

Brawn won in Monza with the lowest fat nose going...what does that say?!

[PlatinumZealot]

Exactly! The nose is not the only thing that adds to the drag..
High or low, the noses on ALL the cars look streamlined to me.. so there is something else that affects the drag even more than the nose. It could be under the nose.. the front wing.. the rear wing.. the sidepods..

[xpensive]

I think it's in the side-protections for the helmet.

[newbie]

almost all (over 70% or so) of the drag reduction from a high-downforce track to a monza/spa type track comes from the rear wing change.

[Balt23]

Exactly! The nose is not the only thing that adds to the drag..
High or low, the noses on ALL the cars look streamlined to me.. so there is something else that affects the drag even more than the nose. It could be under the nose.. the front wing.. the rear wing.. the sidepods..

I agree... I was just trying to say that the nose/front wing, by virtue of being the first pieces of kit to see the airflow, have a knock on effect on the way that the rest of the car goes. The efficiency of the car as a whole will be determined by how the front wing/nose directs the air to the rear of the car.

Brawn won in Monza with the lowest fat nose going...what does that say?!

Well I would have to look closer at it to make a detailed analysis, but my guess is that at Monza, a very low-downforce track with heavy braking zones, they found that the low nose helped them with frontal downforce under braking and they made it work well with the rest of their super-low DF package. Also remember that at Monza performance is driven by how the car handles the chicanes, not only top speed on the straights. More so than Spa, low speed tractive capabilities also play an important role at Monza, an area that Brawn has been great at all year...

Again, just my 2 cp.

[xpensive]

I notice that most 2010 cars display a high but wide nose, wonder what this will do for the times at Spa this year?

[Giblet]

I think people are having issues with causality. The effect of a high nose is not the instant upping of the speed in MPH at the end of the straights.

The overall drag has to be one of the greatest limiting factors, and the nose is right at the front of the car.

The Toyota had one of the higher noses last year, and it was not one the fastest in a straight line.

I would think a more like cause for this effect, would be the engine? The FIF1 had a high nose, but it also had a MERC.